T Nation

Low T Symptoms with Above Range T Numbers? High SHBG and rT3


#42

So what I want to know is this… what if I feel fucking awesome with way high test? What if I want to try this out for a little while. What if I use something like Finasteride to control the DHT and get my AI doesage down to where I keep E2 @ about 22 or so.

It’s hard to go from a lifetime of androgen deficiency to feeling like a fucking champ for the first time in my life, and want to back off of the dosage. But maybe that’s the right decision. Maybe I would feel even better if I cut down the test by 1/3 and didn’t need the AI.


#43

That is what I would do. I’d stay away from finasteride.


#44

You want to take Finasteride and risk permanent sexual, mental, and physical side effects for life, it’s your call. DHT can be control by lowering the test dosage, DHT isn’t something you want to inhibit.

The Post-Finasteride Syndrome is a serious state of permanent sexual, mental, and physical side effects which do not resolve after quitting the drug, most often accompanied by an acquired form of secondary hypogonadism and post-drug loss of androgenic action, which remains highly resistant to hormonal treatments aimed at restoring Testosterone/DHT’s effects in the male body to pre-drug virility levels. It is also surmised by the few specialists in the medical field that a type of receptor or “brain damage” has occurred. As often seen with such damage, recovery is very slow or now questioned whether possible at all. Needless to say, men suffering from PFS are plagued with any physical, mental, and emotional symptoms that have led to long term depression, marital problems and divorce, and now several reports cases of suicide.


#45

No doubt that you feel great. You’re effectively running a low dose blast. You inquired about your E2 being a “tad high”. I’m suggesting that if you’re TT and FT came back down to high normal levels your E2 would follow. You could drop the 3.5mg of AI you currently take per week which is a very high dose compared to most on this forum. Honestly, I think your E2 is low for your current TT and FT levels. Less drugs is better for a long term protocol.


#46

Well none of that sounds appealing…


#47

I do have some weight I can stand to lose… I can already see it coming off. I know that bodyfat determines how much we aromatize, so if I use AI while I get down to a lower body fat, then slowly taper off of it (as well as bringing down the test dose) would this be a decent approach? In the short run, will my current protocol isn’t going to do much harm considering my bloodwork?


#48

I don’t think there’s any cause for concern based on your current bloods. If you do decide to reduce your T dose, lower your AI first. Better to have E2 on the high side than too low.


#49

@KSman … you mentioned Adrenal Fatigue in your post here. I was wondering, have you heard of using progesterone cream to help with this?

This article caters more to women, but it seems that this applies to men as well:


#50

Did you forget to test SHBG? Or did I miss it somewhere?


#51

Hey man, received your PM on the other website. Responding here.

With the risk of sounding like a broken clock as per my post history and the other topic on this forum. It seems quite apparent that the issue may have been the diet. “Clean but not a lot of veggies” isn’t enough :wink:

What people refer to as “adrenal fatigue” is purely carb-related. Thyroid imbalance is a downstream consequence from faulty cellular metabolism IMHO. You tested everything under the sun but unfortunately we don’t have fasted insulin. Doesn’t make me think much better of Dr McClain, unfortunately! Plus, fasted insulin is dirt cheap.

I wouldn’t be surprised tho, if insulin had come back low. More insulin lowers SHBG. This would have more carbs yielding total T and DHT down to slightly lower levels, but also more free androgens balancing out the estradiol.

Basically you probably had a very good carb metabolism but was undereating. Internet-created carb phobia / orthorexia? High stress or low stomach acid leading to a poor digestion? Your liver semeed fine.

Thyroid T3/rT3 ratio is massively impacted by… carbs. Or rather, glucose, and insulin.

I don’t believe you needed a TRT, at all, especially at that dose for those results. Could be too late now, could be beneficial to approach the Defy Medical Doctors I told ya about, and talk to them about my ideas here. You might end up feeling great on very low dose Clomid/Enclomifene if you can get it in the US, rotated in and out throughout the year, and LOTS of carbs. You’re a big boy, eat like it!