T Nation

Low T My Fault??


#1

I have another thread on going "water retention and normal estrogen" with my being put on trt with nebido- test undecanoate (only given 12weekly here in the Uk) which i started in November last yr so far nothing good to report or nothing positive to make me feel better and glad i started treatment

I wish to start this thread seperately as i am concerned on how i have come to have low t and being treated with trt, and i would like to get seperate contributions off other forum members on my issue to see what members general thoughts are.

I am 30 yrs of age, last yr i was diagnosed after blood tests as being hypogonadol, i had a MRI scan to rule out any tumours to my pituitary, whcih came back fine as did an examination of my testicles which were carried out by a proff of endo

After much thinking and questioning as to why all of a sudden within the last 12months or so this has come about. After questioning my gp and 2 different endos as to why this has happened before istarted trt, they couldnt give me a reason my main concern was if i had caused it by loosing alot of weight and muscle from over-dieting thus making the hormonal decline my fault from alot of weight loss to which i have not fully regained (went from approx 17st- 13.5st lightest) and currently still 14st which is very light for my size as i have a large frame and am 6ft 4 with long limbs and have always been bigger and heavier before this great weight loss from over-dieting.
Both endos said that they do not think it is in any way related to my weight loss and its just basically one of those things that can happen in my case with no real explanation as all else seems ok from tests.

I think i disagree and i strongly suspect i have caused my low T and decline in T from these certain factors that have been ongoing for the last 2 yrs currently and pre trt. Both physical and mental factors that have been continously ongoing-

-great weight loss from my usual yr round bigger and heavier body weight, making me under size and weight for a man my size with less muscle and fat (currently approx 13% b.fat @ 14st)
-depression through very low body image, maybe low T, ibs (very depressing and stressfull itself)
-highly stressed hard to relax
-no libido, no sex life for over 2yrs
-poor sleep
-restricing calories and nutrition to just maintain current light weight
-no social life, and no work due to depression and low T symptoms etc
-still training 4 days a week despite physical and mental setbacks

Despite the above i am a healthy person, do not drink, smoke, or take drugs (apart from trt) and eat healthily and clean (but guilty of restricing calories and not eating more) i have always been a natural bbuilder since i began training and at 19yrs competed off and on over the yrs which is the cause of the great weight loss and over dieting to compete. Prior to my weight loss and the above ongoing factors of the last 2 yrs nobody would ever think or look at me and suspect i had low T.
I have worked in a few gyms over the yrs as a instructor, supervisor and Ptrainer so i know a bit about training and of nutrition.
I suspect these factors over the last 2 yrs+ have caused my low T diagnosis and i am very curious as to if i could rectify the low t problem myself naturally if its possible through improving or reversing the above negative factors that i suspect to be the cause of me being hypogonadal all of a sudden meaning that i truely do not need or warrant being on trt treatment as the only option to cure my low T.
Could i make things normal or right again with myT levels naturally with giving time to change things?

Or is everything i suspect all irrelevant and the only solution for me to increase my T to normal is trt?

Any thoughts, comments or input very welcome on this issue of my low hormones and its decline. I have read the stickie on "things that can damage hormones" so i want to see if my personal factors and circumstances have damaged my hormones to the point of trt is not the best solution for me and it could be done naturally?

Thanks gents!


#2

Is it possible? Certainly. Is it the cause? No way to really tell, that I know of. If you aren't sure about TRT you may want to look into a "restart" - basically trying to restart your body's own production. There are some threads on here. I don't know how successful they are though, I think it can be a mixed bag.


#3

I agree i think it could be possibly all my own doing, and maybe it could be irreversable with changing and improving the above negative factors that i suspect to be the cause of my low t downfall, but i guess i wouldnt know unless i tried to not be on trt and see if in time i could improve things naturally.

What do you mean by restart, you mean naturally or with the aid of certain drugs? i would mauch rather try to improve my low t myself naturally without drugs.
But i am very interested in this "restart" info you speak of, could you point me in the direction of this info and anything else that may give me good info on improving/ raising low t naturally?
I am not against trt in any way, i just want to try to determine if i really need it and can justify it to myself that it is the only solution for me and nothing i could do naturally would help me or make a difference, i do not want to be on trt for the wrong reasons if it has been brought on by my own doing.

Thanks.


#4

Don't look at TRT as the wrong reason - what's done is done. What matters now is feeling better. It doesn't matter if you caused it or not - if you're low you're low. What matters is getting to feeling better.

There are threads around here for restart, not sure of specific resources.


#5

Have you read the stickies?

You can be dealing with more than one problem.

The big three are:

low T
thyroid problems
adrenal problems

The above can lead to depression.

What is your iodine intake? Are your body temperatures normal?

Something like Wellbutrin might help you weather the storm, while the above issues are addressed.

We need labs and ranges. There is probably other info in your other tread that is needed here.

nebido is a slow release T ester, there are other ways to get whatever benefits that has.


#6

Heres the info from my last 3 blood tests which have been taken periodicaly from me starting treatment in november 2010.

3/12/10-1st blood test
total t- 8 nmol(range 9-40)
shbg- 47 nmol (range 12-78)
albumin- 43 gl (range 31-47)

6/1/11-2nd blood test
total t- 18.6
shbg-45 (only tests taken)

10/2/11-3rd and last blood test
total t-15.3
shbg-49
albumin-42
serum oestradiol- 79 pmol (range <200 u)
(had a battle to get estrogen tested as i was concerned if my "appearance of water retention" was caused by high estrogen)

Can this appearance of water retention actually be water retention even if my estrogen is normal, as i say i know my body very well and i never had this "appearance" pre- trt, so i am racking my brains to figure out, if it is actually water which i am holding on my abdomen or something else, can testosterone therapy make someone hold water regardless of normal levels estrogen or is it only possible with high estrogen which i dont have?

As far as i know my thyroid is ok

dont know what iodine does?

I have no chance of getting my adrenals tested on the nhs, lucky to get t tested and had a struggle to get my estrogen tested with my last t test

have always been a cold person, but worse now i am underweight for my size, get warm during the night whilst in bed used to get occasional sweats but sleep naked now, have never taken my body temperature

The only thing i know that is low is my t, i do not know the state of my adrenals and will never know from the nhs, according to the proff of endo everything else was normal from the very first tests taken last yr.

What is wellbutrin? what are the other ways to get the benefits without nebido?

Trying to see if i can figure out if my low t is my doing, and if so can it be cured naturally without needing to be on trt or any other drugs, if nothing can be done such as changing the above negative factors that have happenened the past 2-3 yrs and trt is the only way to improve then so be it, but at present i am questioning wether or not i truely need it and its the only way with no other possibilities.

What do you think of it supposidly being my own fault and could i rectify it naturally?
do you think i Should i stay on nebido longer or if i am to try without trt the sooner the better if i have the intention at some point to do so?

Confused.

Thanks for contributions.


#7

One needs to establish the potential pathology of your conditions. Once this is done then proper evalation of several factors need to be investigated and ruled out. Water retention can be from many different factrs. With out know the entire case history it will be impossible to pin point the culprit. It could be e2, excessive DHT, low thyroid, low adrenals, nutrient imbalances, or other issues dealing with kidneys or malabsorption.

Poor lifestyle and stupid choices are at the root of many cases I have dealt with. What done is done, right now we need to focus on damage control and bringing your body back into balance by looking at myraid of issues.


#8

[quote]Hardasnails wrote:
Poor lifestyle and stupid choices are at the root of many cases I have dealt with. What done is done, right now we need to focus on damage control and bringing your body back into balance by looking at myraid of issues.

I understand but my intention was to find out if it is my doing, then COULD possibly my low t be improved/rectified myself naturally without trt, with trt not being the only option. So far nobody has said much if i could, and i guess nobody knows until i try without and it cannot be answered for certain either way.
Thanks.


#9

Given a person age and current situation, I have gotten people levels back up to normal levels by examining several factors which traditional drs are too lazy to look for. As I have said 100 times before some times the answer to the most complex cases are the most simpliest ones if you know what questions to ask. After dealing with 500 patients in a clinical setting mainly with man with low T, it depends on several factors. If these factors are presents are present then person would commence on a restart protocol. Some times it can take 4-5 months to rebalance the body. If the body does not rebalance after 4-5 months, then the person is moved to the HRT. As I note, some times taking short path (HRT) may give you instant gratification, but it may never give your long term satisifaction. I have also been down the same exact pathway as you. If I know what I know now I would not have lost over 7 years of my life because of idiot dr's and be condemned to HRT. Actually, after 7 years will all the knowledge and expereince I acquired, if all variables are incheck then I may try a restart my self.


#10

Mini, if you do not know something, Google it or watch for context in other posts here.

Are you using iodized salt? Sea salt does not contain iodine unless it is added.

Take your temperature when you first wake up then a few times during the day, record and report here. You do not need NHS do get that done.

Read the protocol for injections sticky to understand the method of delivering T that is effective.


#11

Given a person age and current situation, I have gotten people levels back up to normal levels by examining several factors which traditional drs are too lazy to look for. As I have said 100 times before some times the answer to the most complex cases are the most simpliest ones if you know what questions to ask. After dealing with 500 patients in a clinical setting mainly with man with low T, it depends on several factors. If these factors are presents are present then person would commence on a restart protocol. Some times it can take 4-5 months to rebalance the body. If the body does not rebalance after 4-5 months, then the person is moved to the HRT. As I note, some times taking short path (HRT) may give you instant gratification, but it may never give your long term satisifaction. I have also been down the same exact pathway as you. If I know what I know now I would not have lost over 7 years of my life because of idiot dr's and be condemned to HRT. Actually, after 7 years will all the knowledge and expereince I acquired, if all variables are incheck then I may try a restart my self. [/quote]

Are you a doctor Nails?
Im interested in what you say regarding a restart, does this mean either before starting trt, or even stopping it and then trying to coax the body into producing its own ideally more testosterone naturally if it can be done without drugs, or does "restart" mean taking other drugs but not trt?
If it could be done i would like to do it all completely natural without any drugs to increase my low t levels?

My natural t-boosting plan would be something like-

changing lifestyle more of a normal balance work and socially, improving sleep,managing stress and depression better, regular masturbating, weight gain, eating more calories with more efas also with sat and mono fats, and trying out diff natural t-boosters.
Basically try and reverse in time the negative factors that i believe have caused my semi-sudden decline in low T,my goal would be to be normal again and trt and drug free.

Thoughts?

Cheers


#12

[quote]KSman wrote:
Mini, if you do not know something, Google it or watch for context in other posts here.

Are you using iodized salt? Sea salt does not contain iodine unless it is added.

Take your temperature when you first wake up then a few times during the day, record and report here. You do not need NHS do get that done.

What possible benefit would taking iodized salt have on water retention?, what could i learn from taking my daily temperature?

Cheers.


#13

water retention can easily be due to too low sodium. Sodium in blood tests will not reveal low sodium and your system will pull salt from all other areas to maintain blood sodium. do a search for "Aldosterone Sea Salt Pupil Test" to learn more.

extreme dieting/weight lose has a huge impact on thyroid function and cortisol production. your thyroid needs iodine to function. not eating enough food with iodized salt can cause major thyroid issues (on top of the weight loss issues). check out stopthethyroidmadness.com for some great thyroid related information.

thyroid and cortisol effect metabolism which directly correlates to body temperature. Taking your body temperature upon waking and at four hour intervals can give you a good indication of your metabolism which can then give you a overall picture of how your thyroid/cortisol are functioning. check out the blood test sticky for links about body temperature graphs.

many people have thyroid/cortisol issues and mistakenly try to treat them by starting HRT when HRT was never truly needed (like HANS said).