T Nation

Low T - Low Enough?

Living in Denmark, so numbers are a bit different.

S-Sexualhormonbindende globulin stofk. - Result: 13,8 (min. 11 / max 80,0)

S-Testoseron stofk. - Result: 8,6 (min. 8,6 / max 29,0)

S-Testoseron, frit stofk.- Result: 0,245 (min. 0,240 / max 0,690)

My doctor says it´s fine, but my mental and physical state are bad. No energy, always tired, need to take Viagra to get wood, bad memory.

I´m almost 46. 6′ 1. 185 Pounds.

Could T improve my physical and mental state?

These are the classic symptoms of low testosterone and could be thyroid related as well.

Your doctor says you are fine, except you are not fine and are being evaluated by someone who doesn’t specialize in TRT. I doubt there is anyone in Denmark specializes in this area of medicine.

Sex hormones is excluded in medical school and those they have knowledge in this area of medicine are mostly private in anti-aging and sports medicine, most doctors in western medicine are unprepared for treatment of men with endocrine disorders related to the HPTA.

You may have to travel to the UK for treatment, Balance My Hormones is in Dorset.

Yes TRT can improve both mental and physical states.

Testosterone Threshold for Increased Cardiovascular Risk in Middle-Aged and Elderly Men:

The locally weighted regression showed that total testosterone levels of 440 and 480 ng/dL were associated with increased Framingham CVD risk and an increased probability of increased hsCRP, respectively. Men with sexual dysfunction (poor sexual performance, decreased morning erection, and loss of libido) had significantly greater CVD risk.

Your levels when converted to US measurements is 397, so you see your doctor is uninformed and doesn’t know anything. He believes in range is normal, because this is what he was taught in medical school.

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You’re not fine, that’s too low. Get a new doctor, one who knows something.

Thanks for the reply - much appreciated!
Would rather live normal for another 10 years, then live on like this for the rest of my life.
If no doctors will help, I will find what I need and do it myself - sick of this.

No help to get here in Denmark, so I have to do it myself.

Was thinking about an injection of 125mg of test e once a week as a start, and no HCG or anti estrogen. Right way to approach that?

By virtue of being an inhabitant in one of your neighboring Scandinavian countries I’d assume, from my experience, that there are both endocrinologists and urologists in Denmark. Get a referral from your doctor to a specialist, be adamant that while your lab work is in range it is on the absolute edge of it and that you do not accept that given the state of your well-being.

Usually, it helps if you extend your complaint to encompass your ability to work - i.e. because of the lack of memory and reduced memory capacity you are seeing a decrease in your ability to adequately perform your job.

If the doctor insists that as long as your lab-work is in range then he/she cannot refer you further then either request a second opinion or request a second set of labs. There are ways to tank your T-levels before a test, but it is best to be treated for the values you actually have.

That doesn’t mean that there aren’t doctors that wouldn’t be able to help him. If he can get help through the medical system they have in place then that would probably be the safest option to begin with. He might not be afforded a prescription enabling him to self-inject Sub-Q, but it’s not like his options are exhausted after having seen just the one doctor.

Just quick google betrays that there are several departments of endocrinology and urology, and an andrology society to boot. Contacting these institutions before seeking medical treatment in the UK seems more intuitive to me.

Thank you Allberg!

Only work 7 hours a week, and memory is very bad.
I´ll give it another try - ask once more.
I already feel my tank is empty, but how do I get my T-level even lower?

I think it’s waste of time going to these type of doctors, most in the US are ignorant. I expect it to be worse in other countries where there is no evolution of medicine where everyone follows the US’s lead.

I hope :crossed_fingers: If not, I´ll do it myself - just need advice regarding that…I´ll get back when I know more.

There will inevitably always be doctors who are ignorant with respect to things they should know. This goes for any profession, and not just doctor’s but on average, everyone within a certain profession is going to be just that: average. Unfortunately, and perhaps more prominently with doctors there is a certain level of prestige that may inhibit their ability to acknowledge their ignorance. And, of course, the Dunning-Kruger effect comes into play quite a bit.

However, while I’ll readily acknowledge that the US - and ostensibly, the UK - are much further along with respect to treatment options, I don’t believe that readily assuming that endocrinologists and urologists aren’t capable of being better. Unless we as patients express our discontent and struggle to get better treatment then the problem will persist indefinitely.

I’ve been quite open on the forums that I myself am unhappy with my urologist but that is chiefly because he is very inept when it comes to patient care but I’ve yet to consider him incompetent when it comes to medical aspect of needing testosterone replacement therapy. I ran across a GP who even asked about my cortisol levels because she was aware of the pregnenolone steal and was curious if that was part of my symptomology.

The fact is, it’s impossible to know and be good at everything in the medical field. That’s why specialists exist. Our attitudes go a long way in dealing with them - how I am towards the doc is usually reflected back at me. On a personal note, if I’m in the US I very much prefer former Army doctors. They are open, reasonable and realistic in my experience and not just some smug twit that thinks he’s god because he finished Med school.

GP’s on average are better at TRT than endo’s and uro’s, my GP seems more knowledgeable than my endo in thyroid matters. My endo seems to think TSH and Free T4 is all that’s needed, my GP when he suspected a thyroid problem ordered a thyroid panel.

GP’s tend to have broader knowledge, for TRT my money is on the GP.

With everyday shots of 20mg, what is best?
Testosterone enanthate or Testosterone propionate?

I’d still do enanthate personally

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Usually 12-14mg daily should be enough for most, 20mg is on the high side.

Only you can answer this question, with propionate there is no ester and the testosterone available is almost immediate whereas enanthate is released a little more slowly. Which your body prefers only you can answer.

The propionate can sting and burn when injected.

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I´ll go with 12-14mg
How long can these bottles last in the refrigerator?
For me, it´s a black market thing, and would rather have plenty on stock.

You do not put Test in the refrigerator, I would be worried about condensation.

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Should have used Google :roll_eyes:
Storage:
Store testosterone cypionate at room temperature between 68°F and 77°F (20°C and 25°C).
Keep this drug away from light.

I’m living in Denmark and is going through the same as you. There is actually a private clinic in Copenhagen that’s said to be on of the first in the world doing TRT and it should be very good. Their website is: https://www.cphclinic.com

I don’t have any experience with them though (yet a least). I guess it’s quite expensive but I think you should get in touch with them and see.

Copenhagen Cardiovascular Clinic (CCC) has been a pioneer in testosterone treatment for both men and women and is ranked as one of the most experienced clinics in the world for this work.

Please let me know if you do as I would like to know more myself. But I’m still in the process of getting bloodwork done myself so I’m not quite there yet.

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