T Nation

Low T, I Think It's Thyroid? Ksman (was on Clomid now t-cyp)


#222

You’re chasing labs values, how do you feel?


#223

Right now I feel really good. Just think that if t and free t is that high , my goal is to eliminate arimidex. So we see what happens in a few weeks with taking .1 a week of Dex.

Guys have an awesome weekend.

Have sex this weekend even if u have to use Cialis or vitamin v. :wink:
:us::us::us::us:


#224

5/24 lab, after .25 AI,
Now that I am messing with my e2, i am getting heart paps, its either I just do .1 mg a week or no AI again. i need stable e2 or i get symptomatic. but in the past my e2 goes in the 30s.
i am thinking of injecting EOD.
Or i am injecting 54 mg 2x a week. can go down to 50 mg 2 x a week. @physioLojik

TOtal t 598
calculated free t 2.3%
free t 138 (30-150)
bioavail T 367 (72-460)
e2 lcms assay - 13
TSH - 1.75
free t3 3.2
free t4 1.04
SHBG 25
glucose 69 non fasting (70-99)
WBC 7.3 (3.66-11.99) usually never this high
HCT 45.3 (39.3-52.5)%
HGB 15.3 (12.3-17)


#225

@physioLojik any thoughts on above. Thx


#226

@alphagunner


#227

Do you need an AI? Have you tried 50mg twice a week, with no AI?


#228

I did. And my e2 sensitive gets to mid 30s with no ai.
I can try again. My body fat went down a few points since.

My e2 crashed to 8 then in a matter of 2 weeks back to 30.

I can try 100 again but my other numbers seems so great in the recent lab. If I try 100 again still goes in the mid 30s them maybe more frequent injections?

Right now am doing .1 mg a week of Ai. The lab above - I took close to 1/4 mg ai in a week and it went to 13 e2. Is it worth to continue .1 a week and recheck labs in a few weeks Or just go back to 100 a week now? My goal is no ai.

Also, am I right to say being my shbg is on the low end that I am sensitive (symptomatic) to e2 near 30?

Thx @alphagunner


#229

I have a friend, who has similar SHBG. His was 21 I think.

I advised him to start LOW, at 40mg twice a week. 80 total. Because he wanted to avoid using an AI.

He hasn’t done labs yet but says be feels amazing. No high e2 symptoms to speak of.


#230

Ok. Remember to share his labs. Curious.

Thx though, it helps.
If I lower my dose to 100 or even a bit less and my t goes down to a bit over 500 and I feel good is that ok? I figured if am on trt I should at least be around 600.


#231

Your free T is the number that matters though…

Also, how you feel is what really matters.

I was reading on another forum and 2 dudes were walking about how they felt like shit until they dropped their TRT into the 500-600 range… Which seems strange to anyone that tries to get it to the top of the level. But these guys said they felt better.


#232

Ok. My total t is 600 on day of injection right now. So if I lower my dose by 10% my total t would be about 540 if that’s how it works.

Since I got your attention now :grin: if my e2 still in the 30s after I lower my dose , do you suggest more frequent injections?


#233

How do you feel?


#234

I feel very good now. EXCEPT penile sensation not consistent and When my e2 was in the 30s had some water weight and wife noticed some extra breast tissue but that lasted a day. Wierd. When I go on ai the water weight vanishes and breast go flatter. But then my e2 crashed and I get joint issues.

I take daily Cialis so despite the penile sensation thing I can have successfull sex almost all the time. Just feels so much better when sensation is normal.

I gather my sweet spot is low 20s on e2. But I understand that may not be possible and WILL NOT chase that number.

Am very impatient and get labs very frequently. Though I can stay on a protocol if I have to.
I need a protocol that puts my e2 somewhere in the 20s. Maybe even 30

My weight was 195 pounds now it’s about 188. Am 6’1.

Am leaning towards going down to 24cc or 48 mg 2x a week. And recheck labs after 4 weeks. And at least determine if it will translate to a lower e2. If not then we can draw a more precise conclusion on how I convert t to estrogen.

OR stay on .1 mg ai a week and 54 mg 2x a week and see if I can stabilize my e2

Also I might be striving for perfection. Because I am a person who masterbates everyday and 2-3 x sex a week. So if I have an issue 1day it drives me bananas. Not sure if other guys masterbate everyday.

Thanks @alphagunner for your time.


#235

Your close man. Are you taking DIM or CDG?

Im 16 days into the 50mg eod protocol and feel pretty damn good though i don’t have any labs. Libido 7/10, erections solid and crushing my workouts. Must admit the first week was rough. Still no AI. Hoping I can maintain this feeling.

A few friends of mine are on daily or eod injections despite normal shgb and love it. They kept T levels steady and kicked the AI after years of being on one. They convinced me to drop the dose and up the frequency.

When my E is jacked I tend to masturbate more often as kind of like an erection test. Since I’m feeling better I’ve cut back. My urologist told me to cut back since it can effect your duration of actual sex. In other words your more likely to orgasm quicker If you are a jerking a quick one out everyday.


#236

Yep. That’s what I do. Sometimes I just work up an erection just to test without finishing.

I don’t use dim or CDG. Instead eat brussel sprouts a few times a week. And take a little extra zinc. I think I will drop to 100 mg from 108 and recheck in a few weeks. If e2 still high, will increase frequency. Taking the ai just puts me in a roller coaster since I over respond to it.
My body fat went down to 18 from 21 %. So maybe my e2 will be better.

Glad you feel better man.


#237

OkInstead of continuing my .1 ai a week. I am gradually lowering my weekly from 108 mg to 92 mg.
So I injected 48 mg today and then will start injecting 46mg 2x a week. NO AI.
So I chose 46mg because that 23 CC on my syringe. Each cc is 2mg using 1ml/200mg vial.

I will say something though using the ai last week I was super horny all weekend. So it lowered me to my sweet spot.
If lower dose don’t lower e2 I can also reevaluate to see if I should lower further or add ai.

@alphagunner you think 92 mg ok to go down to or lower ?
I will wait 4-5 weeks and do complete labs. Ill tell you I know how my libido was this past weekend and my great penile sensation came back…if I go back to less sensation …I may not be able to wait


#238

I cant speculate about anything related to using an AI…

I take 90 a week split into 2 shots. But I have high shbg.


#239

It’s early with my reduced dose but I felt better in the higher dose. I feel that my e2:t ratio is worse. I probably lowered my Testosterone and didn’t see an equal lowering in my e2. I will wait longer for labs.

Already thinking to see if I should try EOD injections or just go back up to 108mg divided in 2 doses and use an ai 1x a week at .1 mg. I felt best doing this. I was just trying to eliminate the ai. Do I try EOD or just use ai with 108mg?
I wish this was easier. It appears I feel best with e2 in low 20s.

Another option never tried is to higher t dose to 120 mg to see if my e2 to t ratio actually improves. I was never more than 600 or so total t. Last lab was really good though at 108mg just the e2 was in mid 30s.

Here’s my last lab Low T, I Think It’s Thyroid? Ksman (was on Clomid now t-cyp)

If you can chime in @physioLojik or wait for my next labs on my current protocol of 92mg divided in 2 injections.

Also seems like I only notice libido in the morning.


#240

Is there anyway with EOD injections with mid 20s shbg? Or are doing well on 2x a week?


#241

@alphagunner any update on your friend you can provide? And how long he had been injecting? And did he ever try eod