T Nation

Low T. Can I Get My Body Back?


#1

Well,

I was pulled off TRT because of polycythemia (long story) ..

Anyway now after having watched myself shrink since mid November LOTS… I have a question…

My current levels are 219, is it possible to get my body back, do I have to train differently? eat differently?

I at least got Nolva out of my Doc as I told him cold turkey was a crap idea, and a scrip for HCG which I have yet to find outside the diet clinics whom want to charge me an arm and a leg to go through all of their hoops.

I may be able to return to test in 6 months pending the Poly being permanent or not, if so they will let me in at a lowe dose… I was only on.05 a week in the first place…

The reason I ask about the 219 is that 6 months ago I was 454 but I was holding lots of mass without issue, that is considered low for my age 47 so I am curious what your thoughts are.

I can go more into detail in pm of the whole issue, but I have been cleared to lift heavy again by the Doc…

Thank you in advance,
Chris

KS man you have been much help in the past if you can PM me… thank you…


#2

Hi Teufelhunden,

same happened to me when my test levels came down. I lost more than 12 kgs since my test level dropped from 560 to 370 and gained a lot of fat.
I am also interested in understanding, if it could be posible to obtain some gains (get back what i used to be a couple of months ago) with Low test.
For what ive been told elsewhere, i suppose one have to go to the gym less often (3 times a week) and train for no more than 50 mins. That’s imposible for me ! I am used to go almost everyday. I quit running thought.
And since Ive got low test I can’t gain any muscle, just belly and chest fat, even mantaining same routine and diet… Sometimes i just want to give up, but then i think if i just quit it would be worse. It sucks!!!
I am not quite sure what is the role of sex hormones on body composition… I know it matters… But i dont know in what extent 100%, 50%, 25% ?
For what ive read 600 is threshold for loosing fat, but regarding mucle building i am not aware of anynumber…

So, in resume, i am quite interested in this post.

Best,


#3

Yes I did notice that I am gaining weight fairly quick, going to switch to a low carb diet for a bit, take maca, DIM and use progesterone to try to combat the E levels with the Nolva… My testicles are a tad larger and am taking a test booster.
It just sucks how fast I lost my muscle over that month but I was not sleeping and unable to eat much as the heart problem was also causing bad indigestion to where it was painful to eat a big meal…
Read a great article about low T and building muscle from a blog from Glute guy … if I can find it again I will post it…


#4

i lost 10 kgs in 2 months (almost everything muscle).
I found out then that I was Low T and High cortisol.
Perfect Storm!

I’ve been on Nolvadex 20 mg for 3 months… I didnt managed estradiol so my T levels were 700-800 but estradiol over 50.
I saw no improvement on sex , neither on body reconfig.

My question is if it is posible to gain muscle ant stop fat gain on a low dose Nolvadex (10 mg a day) and 0,5 Arimidex a week?
I am starting this restart protocol tomorrow, but if HPTA doesnt stand, i am thinking on cruise a low nolva and a low arimidex for a while.

@KSman , what is the inconvenience from cruising on a low Nolva dose ? Is it posible to obtain gains while on Nolva ? Are the sides from this Nolva cruise that bad ? Why isnt this use more often and secondary people (like me) just go for T?

Many thks,
Best to all


#5

That depends on how your pituitary responds and what LH/FSH is produced and how your testes respond to that. If LH is excessive, T–>E2 inside the testes can become high and anastrozole cannot manage that inside the testes and serum E2 can become high.

If SERM leads to the same T levels you had before, I do not see how this is a change and polycythemia expected to be the same.

Please read the stickies found here: About the T Replacement Category

  • advice for new guys
  • things that damage your hormones
  • protocol for injections
  • finding a TRT doc
  • HPTA restart

PMs have been gone for years.


#6

It´s common spread on internet that 20 mg Nolva lower IGF-1 by 25%.
I think that with 10 mg that descrease should be less significant


#7

Hmm would i still get a pump with low t?


#8

I cant get a significative pump.
Strenght is the same as before, weights are the same, but right now i just cant feel pumps on gym anymore.
I noticed that on a small test i can, but without it, it’s just hard work for nothing.
That’s my experience.
I am probbaly too much focused on the test thing , but i cant figure out other reason for changes in body configuration (less muscle, more fat) and (no) gym effect on muscles.
At least on labs there arent differences besides t value…


#9

On a side note. HCG = Compounding Pharmacy. What city are you in, I am sure someone can recommend one.


#10

When E2 is low or less visible from SERM use, less GH is released and E2 is though to be permissive for GH production. This is known for studies of [elderly] women with breast cancer where the objective is E2–>zero or maximum blockage with a SERM. In a TRT context we avoid low E2 and intelligent SERM use [rather rare except this forum involves higher SERM dosing allowing for reasonable E2 visibility to avoid high testicular FT–>E2 from excessive LH levels.

I do not believe that AI or SERM’s used with my guidance are going to have a significant effect on GH or IGF-1.

You need to be able to read the context of studies based on female cancer treatment to see what applies and what does not.

Body builders looking for E2 and body fat % in single digits should be worried, but guys that extreme are doing many other harmful things and injecting large amounts of growth hormone creating high IGF-1 levels.


#11

Hey man,

I took months to get from 65kg to 55ish but it takes time for the body to adapt and understand how it should lose the adipose tissue and gain lean mass. Don’t rush it, I didn’t. I was amused by the change. It was long (very long) by my standards because it wasn’t a priority. You want to let the body get ‘used’ to the set point before moving off to a lower bdwt.

I started out by walking long distances. 20 to 30km once or twice a week.
I then inserted in 2km jogs and increased it by a km a month to 5km.
I then tried out light intervals.
These turned into walls to balls cardio.

For gymming related info, I started out by doing massive volume! Hours in the gym, 20 sets of each exercise, snatches, squats, deadlifts, pullups followed by isolation exercises. I died. I lost 2kgs a day and was eating 300 calories.

But you get smarter and need less calories subsequently.

  1. Train fasted
  2. Don’t sweat the small stuff.
  3. Insert cardio slowly. Enjoy it.
  4. Once you are warmed up to the routine, lessen the gymming intensity, switch to walls to balls cardio
  5. Eat starches after gymming. Drink minimal water (80% post-training)
  6. Eat less meat (only after gymming)
  7. Try the Velocity Diet but pair it with your own workout. Their routines may not be suitable for you as you want to ‘ease’ into an enjoyable and healthy lifestyle. Meaning it can either be too relaxed or too hardcore
  8. Get ample rest.
  9. Do bodyweight circuits if you can’t get to a gym or hate it. 1 upper body 2 lower body 3 core 4 legs (optional). Compound exercises, 10 sets each minimally. Time yourself and go faster each time. For 2-3 months
  10. The breakdown for me is like this (Gym/Nutrition/Cardio: 40/40/20)

All the best. Will be watching this thread!