T Nation

Low T and Strange Other Results

Stats:
28 yo male, never used anabolics
5’11"
pants waist 38
225lbs
fully beard and head of hair, hairy chest
carry fat on belly and ass
health: tired, hate waking up, sleep 9 hrs/night
Rx: Levothyroxine 75 mg, vitamin D 5k-10kIU/day when I remember, some ZMA, Flameout 4-8 caps/day, red yeast rice feb-may
Diet: Feb-may slow carb, now normal american with healthier choices
Training: 2-3 days/wk full body compound, usually 5x5 2-4 exercises
testes aches: yes, had some two years ago, now is back. dull pain in that area. test 5/4 included beta HCG and PSA to test for test/prostate cancer, came back negative. getting ultrasound soon.
morning wood: haven’t had much morning wood since 18, had some after stopping red yeast rice on 5/4, erections are fine

Results: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgJGDSXC6S34dFN4QVdMR0loQzFncWZpUG5kYW9jWEE

My doctor is keen on preventative medecine, and as such wants to see ideal numbers, not just in range, which is refreshing.

I have been on levothyroxine about a year, 50mg until 5/4 then 75mg. Doc wants to see TSH around 2. Oddly TSH went back up after upping dosage, but that was only after 1 week of new dosage. Getting tested again in 4 weeks.

I was on red yeast rice for a few months to help with cholesterol. When I went in 5/4 my sex drive and energy were in the shitter. When we saw the cholesterol levels and T levels had dropped a ton decided to stop the red yeast rice, they recovered most of the way after only two weeks.

Test levels are lower than myself and my doc want, but we don’t want to do T replacement therapy at my age, just fix it by fixing rest of system. The DHEA and Pregnenolone are really high, which is odd since those are T precursors. Also, Dihydrotest is really low. LH and FSH are aalso pretty low.

My doc put me on 50mg clomid for 4 weeks to test my pituitary. If the LH and FSH don’t go up then that should indicate a pituitary problem.

Does anyone have any insight on my numbers and why they are how they are?

Thanks.

Does anyone know why DHEA and Pregnenolone would high out of range, Dihydrotestosterone below range, and T in low normal? Seems like an odd situation.

Thanks.

My theory would be that your body is ramping up T production building blocks but does not have the “orders” (from LH/FSH) to utilize it.

If LH/fSh are low, I would recommend you to pursue a SERM restart or HCG challenge to see if your body responds, then evaluate from there.

Thanks VTBalla. My doc put me on a clomid for 4 weeks as I mentioned. That is a SERM restart test, right?

What is HCG challenge? I searched site and googled but didn’t find anything besides people doing it. What does that tell you?

Thanks.

Yes, your doc is attempting a SERM restart/challenge.

HCG works in much the same manner (stimulating your testes to see if they can produce testosterone) but is a bit different from the SERM (SERM stimulates pituitary acitivity resulting in LH/FSH production to be recieved by the testes to stimulate them. HCG mimics LH to stimulate them.)

See how your results are on the SERM.

Most people are secondary (their pituitary doesnt work right) instead of primary (testes dont work right) so that will give you more treatement options than primary, if such is the case with you. Its possible once you discontinue the SERM that your body will maintain natural output on its own. If not, you can restart a SERM long term, take HCG long term, or even take exogenous Test (which is the only option for those with primary) for long term.

I am more in favor of long term HCG use than SERM, due to the estrogen benefits.

Thanks. I’ll see how it goes.

I have read elsewhere on T-Nation that iodine deficiency can aggravate hypothroidism, and is indicated with a T3/T4 ration <5. Mine is 2.25. I tested low for TPO, so I don’t think I have an immune disfunction like Hashimoto’s. Does anyone think taking Iodoral will help? Any negatives?

your ferritin is pretty low, and it is important for thyroid. see link.

You can try iodine, but I dont know many people that have benefited from it. KSMAN liked it and he is pretty well versed in this, so its worth a shot.

Wannabebig, my ferritin on 2/2/11 was much higher, 318. I have since given blood multiple times in an attempt to reduce it some based on some articles here on T-Nation. I wonder if I went to far. My current level is still well within normal. I guess I’ll stop giving blood.

VTBalla34, my doc said Ioderal was way too high of a dosage. I took two this morning before I heard from him, I’m definitely warmer today than usual, almost on verge of sweating. He suggested Thyroid Synergy from designs for health, which contains Iodine in about a 10x lower dose, and other stuff like selenium.

I doubt the iodine you took today is responsible for the warmer feeling you think you are experiencing. Most likely placebo or another factor.

Ioddoral is pretty large amounts, but this is probably waht you need initially if you are iodine deficient. I wouldn’t take those doses for very long. The caps also break in half–I think when I took it I was splitting the cap in half and taking it every other day. But I dont remember. i stopped because it didnt do jack shit.

Follow your doctors advice if in question. No idea about the product, but I’ve come to just assume most products of that nature are a waste of money (note I feel the same about Ioddoral)

Hey guys,

Do you see issues with my thyroid results? I’ve been on 50mcg, now 75mcg Levothyroxine (artificial T4 only) for months. My TSH hasn’t really gone down. T4 has gone up some, and T3 is the same. Both are midrange. I haven’t felt any different on the Levothyroxine. Does my high TSH with normal looking T3/T4 indicate hypothyroidism, or is the extra T4 a waste?

Thanks.

[quote]jaggededge1313 wrote:
Does my high TSH with normal looking T3/T4 indicate hypothyroidism?
[/quote]

i have the same issue and through my research determined it is due to thyroid hormone resistance. high cortisol levels prevent the T3 from getting into the cells, so your body panics and wants more thyroid hormone so it pumps out more TSH.

high cortisol will also interfere at the pituitary level and prevent the release of LH, which decreases testosterone.

[quote]wannabebig250 wrote:
i have the same issue and through my research determined it is due to thyroid hormone resistance. high cortisol levels prevent the T3 from getting into the cells, so your body panics and wants more thyroid hormone so it pumps out more TSH.
[/quote]

This can also be said for low cortisol.

Looking further at your thyroid tests, yeah there does appear to be some problem there. I notice you only have TPO listed. But there are two tests to rule out for Hashi’s. The other being Thyroglobulin AB.

Did you ever get that one done? It is possible to test negative for one and positive for another.

Also, you are right that your TSH is on the high end despite being on thyroid meds. But I’m not sure what your med actually is (im not familiar with the name brands) but many guys do better on T3 only meds, if that is an option for you.

In the gym tonight I felt better than I had in probably a year. I hit a squat PR and did the same amount of stuff after that recently has left me completely wiped out and exhausted the rest of the night. Instead I felt energized and happy at home afterwards. I also felt fairly warm all day, and am still hot 2 hours after leaving they gym. I don’t know if it’s the Clomid kicking in (been on 50mg for 6 days) or the Ioderal (I took one 12.5mg cap last night and two this morning).

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

[quote]wannabebig250 wrote:
i have the same issue and through my research determined it is due to thyroid hormone resistance. high cortisol levels prevent the T3 from getting into the cells, so your body panics and wants more thyroid hormone so it pumps out more TSH.
[/quote]

This can also be said for low cortisol.

[/quote]

good point. i was just going by his high AM cortisol. without a 4x diurnal saliva test we cant be sure how he is the rest of the day.

I took a 4x saliva test last week, waiting on results. Excited to see what it is.

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
My theory would be that your body is ramping up T production building blocks but does not have the “orders” (from LH/FSH) to utilize it.

If LH/fSh are low, I would recommend you to pursue a SERM restart or HCG challenge to see if your body responds, then evaluate from there.[/quote]

VT, I am 31 and have similar blood test results expect for two major differences. 1. My total test is 330 (300-1100) and my TSH is a .64 (.4-4.5).

T3 total is 99 (60-181) and T4 is 8.1 (4.5-10.9)

My LH is 4.3 (1.5-9.3) and FSH is 4.3 (1.4-18.1).

Jamie’s results look like they reflect a solid 1:1 ratio which is good but do really think the figures aren’t high enough?

I am awaiting estradiol, DHEA-S and prolactin. Next will be a complete spectra cell panel including iron. Also think the vitamin D at a 35 is a little low and should be around 50-70. I personally think there is some serious deficiency somewhere. These text book internists really try to make it difficult. The best is when one doctor said “there’s a time you have to trust a doctor’s skills.” I told him that I would never trust a doctor that though, even though in range, a total T of 330 for a 31 year old is “completely normal.”

Hi,

So I got the cortisol results back back a while ago and forgot to post. I also did the Clomid test, and got those results. My LH, FSH, T, Estrogen went way up as expected. I stopped taking it when I got moody and easily angered. Does that mean my testicles work fine? I have done another round of tests recently. My WBC came in under the range which is worrisome. I feel pretty good, so don’t think I have an infection. The other really odd thing is my DHEA-S has been consistently high, out of range, and pregnenelone has been pretty high too. It’s like my body is making lots of precursors to testosterone, but not converting it to T. I am also worried about the high DHEA-S, the only reason I’ve found for that is a tumor in the adrenal gland. If anyone has any insight or suggestions I’d love to hear it.

All the results are at: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgJGDSXC6S34dFN4QVdMR0loQzFncWZpUG5kYW9jWEE

If you look at the results (which would be awesome for anyone with experience), note for test on 5/4/12 I had been taking red yeast rice, and it totally killed my hormones. I felt like shit to back that up. I stopped and was more back towards normal, but still had really high pregnenelone, dheas, and low DHT. I did a cortisol salivary test, and came back near the low end of the ranges for each interval. I don’t think of myself as a stressed person so that seems right. I then did a restart on Clomid, the results for that are on 7/13/12, and my hormones shot through the roof. I think that means my gonads and adrenals work, my pituitary just doesn’t signal them to make more. What would cause that? I then stopped Clomid, and six months later was just tested and was back to around my normal with still high DHEAS, low DHT.