T Nation

Low T 1 Year After Cycle? Not Responsive to PCT

Hello guys! Would really appreciate any advice on this.

I’ve got off cycle in 05.2019. Ever since I believe my Free T is low.

So first of all I’m not sure if it’s low, doctors keep telling me it’s fine because it’s within the range.

My T in 2017 was more than double my current. Main issue is low energy/depression and sleeping issues.

I’d like to know if the issues might indeed be due to the T, and if so, what would I need to do.

I went to a few doctors of course but they say it’s not an issue, so I’m asking here for a second opinion.

Thank you very much!

The only one that counts is the one where you aren’t taking anything to raise it, and no one is going to diagnose you based on Free T. They need a Total T number (Usually 2 of them) to make a diagnosis, and yours is low. Especially for your age.

Thanks for the answer man!

Except the most recent value, I was not taking anything when being tested. I made sure to leave some time after the PCTs for example before getting tested.

Thanks again!

You have low T. It is “In range” technically. But not for your age.

yeah that’s def. low enough to cause symptoms for a lot of people. If I were you and you already have access to T, I’d try a reasonable TRT dose (maybe 150mg/week?) for 2-3 months and see if that makes you feel normal. If so, you have to decide whether you’re going to just go with it that way or go to a TRT clinic or whatever to try to make the prescription legal (but much more expensive).

The other option is you keep waiting or try Clomid again and see if it can get your levels to stay up when you stop taking it again. Some people do 25mg EOD or 12.5mg/day for a few months and their levels stay when they stop taking it, but that is more the exception than the rule IMO.

It’s not likely you’re going to find a “regular” doc that will prescribe you at those levels, esp at your age.

This is what’s taught in medical school, in range is normal, but for sex hormones that’s not always the case until you take age into consideration. You would expect to see an 85 year old man with testosterone on the lower end, but not a young otherwise healthy young man.

Thank you for confirming my suspicions!

At least now I know that it’s not “in my head”. It’s really reassuring because this whole year as you can see I’ve been visiting doctors (hence the analytics), and they kept repeating that it’s normal.

My parents asked their doctor friend and were convinced that my T is actually good, told me I was making it all up. You can see how that makes one desperate.

I live in Finland and cannot get any T/Clomid anymore unfortunately (all my sources are gone). I am trying private doctors here but so far no luck. If someone in this country knows how to get TRT or even just Clomid/HCG treatment from some center, I’d appreciate the info.

But well at least confirming I got low T is the first step. Thank you.

That’s probably because you forgot you ran a cycle in 2017.

Your Test level at 20 years old were good. By running a cycle, you started a physiological snowball of problems and the cycle last year was a short-term reprieve from the effects, so you’re back to your “new” normal now. That’s why we always tell young guys it’s a terrible idea to use anabolics.

To be clear, you gave yourself low T.

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Hey Chris,

No, I haven’t forgot. The 2017 value I have in this thread was before I implemented the cycle in 2017. But you are correct, I ran one in 2017/18 as I remember, and T recovered after that (can provide analytics later). Unfortunately can’t say the same about this 2nd cycle.

I am well aware I gave myself low T. But aren’t you supposed to recover after a cycle?

If 40 y/o can recover, why can’t I at 23? What’s the discrimination towards young guys lol?

And is there a way to push this “new” normal upwards?

You “forgot” to tell people about it. Sort of a relevant factor to mention. Also, editing your post to remove the info was dumb and counterproductive, so I undid it.

What were your numbers right after that cycle? And your numbers before starting the cycle in 2019?

Depends on a few factors, like how to cycle is setup and the state of your physiology before starting.

That’s not what that word means.

You can make some changes via nutrition, supplements, and body comp, but if you’re diagnosed with low T, a proper TRT protocol is the most significant treatment.

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What kind of cycle did you run? If you run Deca or Tren at a very young age, ONE cycle can indeed mess up your HTPA for life.

Läkare i Finland vet ingenting om TRT, men om du förstår svenska är det bara en Google-sökning som behövs.

I told my natural level before the cycles. and my current level 1 year after the cycle, those are the important numbers. The numbers during this last one year show that my HPTA is refusing to recover.

I removed my info because this thread was no longer getting any replies, and I can’t delete it. I will re-edit it again in the future. Please do not undo it.

That was a couple months after first cycle. I started 2nd cycle around December 2018 (ended May 2019).

The trend after finishing my 1st cycle was for both TT and FT to increase every time I tested, so I assume between 2018 they increased further.

I had 2 PCTs lined up, HCG on cycle, and after my 1st cycle my recovery was pretty good. I did not expect anything to go wrong to be honest.

Discriminating between young men and older men when it comes to running cycles (“That’s why we always tell young guys it’s a terrible idea to use anabolics.”).

Either way the word is not the issue here :smiley:

Yeah, trying all that. I cannot seem to get TRT because again, the fact that TRT is usually given to men over 40 and I’m in my early 20’s, plus T is “normal”. I am researching herbal supplements that for example HCGenerate uses meanwhile. If you know any good supplements let me know.

Thank you.

Yeah, that might have been it. First cycle I only ran Sust, second cycle I added Tren and Dbol.

Unfortunately Swedish is not my strong suit, but maybe looking in other EU countries would be good idea. Thanks for the advice.

Metabolites from Tren stay in your body for a very long time. Furthermore, it typically leads to very high prolactin levels. We don’t know all the reasons why Tren is so suppressive, but that’s two of them.

Your hypothalamus and pituitary gland are typically not fully mature before you’re 25. There are of course individual differences here. Some people have fully mature HPTA systems at age 19, others do not have that until their late 20’s.

There is a large, Swedish message board that sells pretty much anything. You can find it with Google. I don’t think the customs in Finland checks packages from Sweden, but do some research nevertheless.

N2Generate is a dietary supplement. Its not a miracle drug. The ingredients that are proven to work are “fadogia agrestis” and “tongkat Ali”. The former can swapped for “bulbine Natalensis” which is even more efficient.

Good luck! :slightly_smiling_face:

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No, the important number is knowing where your body was after your first cycle. It seems pretty clear that you didn’t ever actually recover from that first cycle and have very likely had low T since 2017.

That’s not how it works. Removing info from a post after it’s been replied to messes up the thread, creates confusion, and prevents anyone from contributing further.

No.

Agreed, it’s not the word. It’s the behavior and the physiology. Just like a gym newbie gets different advice than a guy who’s been lifting 12 years, 20-year olds and 40-year olds get different advice about AAS.

I’ve had results from combining Alpha Male, Rez-V, and ZMA.