T Nation

Low Sex Drive on Cycle

Been on about 500mg of test a week, or 250-300mg e3d for almost a year now. Seems like my sex drive varies a lot… could never really find a reason as to why. Gone through several different types of test, from QV (well, IP-made QV) to random UG labs to what I’m using right now. I’m seeing decent results from the test, nothing special, but nothing to suggest it’s fake.

Lately my sex drive has been rather… sad. Worse than its ever been before. Low sex drive and desire to have sex. No issues getting off while watching porn… but not much of a desire to. I don’t look at women the way I know I should look at them while I’m on. Definitely feel good overall, no complaints there. Inability to achieve and maintain an erection somewhat often. Kept going soft and then hard again last time I had sex. Basically, it seems like there’s limited blood flow to the penis… and blood leaves it as soon as I’m not 100% focused on sex (switching positions, putting on a condom, etc.) No issues coming, however, which seems odd.

Gonna include some vital stuff I got from a blood test a few weeks ago. Tested a bunch of stuff, but just including what I think might be important:

Test Description Reference Range
Prolactin: 17 <18 ug/L
High Sensitivity CRP: 6.4 Anything above 3mg/L means high risk for cardiovascular disease.
Anyone know what’s up with that? Inflammation from training/BA?
Free test >170 31-94pmol/L (it says > than… too much to measure I guess?)
Estradiol 56 <157pmol/L (I use low doses of letro… different amounts or
eliminating it had 0 effect on sex drive.)

Could the prolactin be a bit too high? Any suggestions? Thanks in advance for the help.

It’s generally accepted that e2 ~22 is optimal. So your value (56) is too high.

[quote]Explosiv wrote:
It’s generally accepted that e2 ~22 is optimal. So your value (56) is too high.[/quote]

Please stop giving advice…you have no idea what you are talking about

One man on this forum says E2 = 22 is optimal, yet you will not see that advice on any other forum that he is not on.

You also did not even manage to get the units right. The OP gave his number in mol/L and not pg/mL. Those are completely different scales, so your E2=22 bro science has absolutely no relevance here.

OP your prolactin looks a little high. Not sure why that is–could be many things. Do you have baseline values to comapre to? Have you tried just coming off your long-term cycle and seeing how things improve?

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

[quote]Explosiv wrote:
It’s generally accepted that e2 ~22 is optimal. So your value (56) is too high.[/quote]

Please stop giving advice…you have no idea what you are talking about

One man on this forum says E2 = 22 is optimal, yet you will not see that advice on any other forum that he is not on.

You also did not even manage to get the units right. The OP gave his number in mol/L and not pg/mL. Those are completely different scales, so your E2=22 bro science has absolutely no relevance here.

OP your prolactin looks a little high. Not sure why that is–could be many things. Do you have baseline values to comapre to? Have you tried just coming off your long-term cycle and seeing how things improve?[/quote]

Yeah I didn’t notice the units, my bad on that.

So far KSman and Bill Roberts have both recommended that value.

What is the value that you would recommend or you have seen recommended?

I can relate to this, I have been in the EXACT same position as the symptoms you describe.

IMO I dont think prolactin is the problem but could be. If you decide to try caber, use a tiny amount first as little as 0.5mg can rock-bottom your prolactin (from blood tests).

To be honest with you I think the problem is the duration on the cycle, I believe your body has got accustomed to these levels of Test. I do not have any scientific evidence that confirms your body adapts to a particular dose but I feel this is the case.

Also it is possible you expect your sex drive to be higher because you are comparing it to when you first started using and now you are used to it.

SB

funny that your prolactin could be high without !9-nors

[quote]Explosiv wrote:
It’s generally accepted that e2 ~22 is optimal. So your value (56) is too high.[/quote]

I don’t think my e2 is too high. I’ve had it higher while having a better sex drive, and as I’ve said, I’ve played around with different amounts of letro with 0 results.


VTBalla34 and Singhbuilder:

Don’t quite remember my baseline Prolactin levels, but I know it hasn’t been this high in the past. Any suggestions as to how to proceed with the caber? Any ideas on any good research lab caber, or what do you think I should try?

And no, I definitely know my sex drive is off. An inability to obtain or maintain a quality erection is NOT normal…

get pharm grade caber. I had research stuff from a very well respected research company and it did jack shit

[quote]Explosiv wrote:

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

[quote]Explosiv wrote:
It’s generally accepted that e2 ~22 is optimal. So your value (56) is too high.[/quote]

Please stop giving advice…you have no idea what you are talking about

One man on this forum says E2 = 22 is optimal, yet you will not see that advice on any other forum that he is not on.

You also did not even manage to get the units right. The OP gave his number in mol/L and not pg/mL. Those are completely different scales, so your E2=22 bro science has absolutely no relevance here.

OP your prolactin looks a little high. Not sure why that is–could be many things. Do you have baseline values to comapre to? Have you tried just coming off your long-term cycle and seeing how things improve?[/quote]

Yeah I didn’t notice the units, my bad on that.

So far KSman and Bill Roberts have both recommended that value.

What is the value that you would recommend or you have seen recommended?
[/quote]

20-30 pg/mL is a fairly decent starting point for guys on TRT. When you add supra-physiological test doses to the equation, my suspicion is that changes the game somewhat. I imagine you can tolerate higher levels than that if your T is much higher, but again I am just giving my OPINION and not trying to pass it off as fact.

Please link to Bill Roberts stating 22.

[quote]abc123d wrote:

And no, I definitely know my sex drive is off. An inability to obtain or maintain a quality erection is NOT normal…[/quote]

sex drive and erection quality are completely different things…

[quote]abc123d wrote:

Estradiol 56 <157pmol/L (I use low doses of letro… different amounts or
eliminating it had 0 effect on sex drive.)
[/quote]

Your estradiol is 15 pg/mL in more conventional units.

This is quite low, and may be causing some of your problems.

AIs like letro can cause problems even if estradiol is not low, because serum values are an average indicator over many body tissues. For example, maybe the AI is suppressing E2 just enough in the fat tissue but at the same time too much in the brain, and we cannot control this. An AI is a very blunt instrument.

You say adjusting or eliminating the AI has no effect on sex drive, but are you giving it enough time? E2 changes do not have an immediate effect - the body has to get used to it. It can take libido a number of weeks (4-6) to catch up once you have corrected E2 levels.

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

[quote]abc123d wrote:

And no, I definitely know my sex drive is off. An inability to obtain or maintain a quality erection is NOT normal…[/quote]

sex drive and erection quality are completely different things…
[/quote]

I understand that, and I have far less desire, if any at all, to have sex, AND trouble with erection quality.

[quote]seekonk wrote:

[quote]abc123d wrote:

Estradiol 56 <157pmol/L (I use low doses of letro… different amounts or
eliminating it had 0 effect on sex drive.)
[/quote]

Your estradiol is 15 pg/mL in more conventional units.

This is quite low, and may be causing some of your problems.

AIs like letro can cause problems even if estradiol is not low, because serum values are an average indicator over many body tissues. For example, maybe the AI is suppressing E2 just enough in the fat tissue but at the same time too much in the brain, and we cannot control this. An AI is a very blunt instrument.

You say adjusting or eliminating the AI has no effect on sex drive, but are you giving it enough time? E2 changes do not have an immediate effect - the body has to get used to it. It can take libido a number of weeks (4-6) to catch up once you have corrected E2 levels. [/quote]

My sex drive was low before, even when I was taking the lowest dose of letro possible and my estradiol was 3x higher on blood tests, and sex drive wasn’t much different.

[quote]abc123d wrote:

[quote]seekonk wrote:

[quote]abc123d wrote:

Estradiol 56 <157pmol/L (I use low doses of letro… different amounts or
eliminating it had 0 effect on sex drive.)
[/quote]

Your estradiol is 15 pg/mL in more conventional units.

This is quite low, and may be causing some of your problems.

AIs like letro can cause problems even if estradiol is not low, because serum values are an average indicator over many body tissues. For example, maybe the AI is suppressing E2 just enough in the fat tissue but at the same time too much in the brain, and we cannot control this. An AI is a very blunt instrument.

You say adjusting or eliminating the AI has no effect on sex drive, but are you giving it enough time? E2 changes do not have an immediate effect - the body has to get used to it. It can take libido a number of weeks (4-6) to catch up once you have corrected E2 levels. [/quote]

My sex drive was low before, even when I was taking the lowest dose of letro possible and my estradiol was 3x higher on blood tests, and sex drive wasn’t much different. [/quote]

Maybe even the lowest dose of letro was suppressing E2 too much in your brain - you wouldn’t know that by testing serum E2 because that’s just an average from all tissues.

Also, are you taking any other drugs or supplements that have been reported to suppress libido, like finasteride/dutasteride, antidepressants, opioids, green tea extract, soy, curcumin (turmeric), licorice, or fish oil?

You also really should have a doctor get to the root of your high CRP.

^^^Good point…aside from suppression of E2 in the brain and other perihperheral tissue, it may be the drug itself that is causing your ED. I have never used Letro, but I was on Adex when I first started TRT and it put a damper on my libido and erections. I had my E2 dialed in in the mid 20’s or so, but it didn’t seem to do the trick. As soon as I switched to Aromasin instead, with the same E2 levels, the problem partially corrected itself.

Dopamine issues maybe?

Staying on for so such a long time might play with other factors than the usual E2 & prolactin factors.

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
^^^Good point…aside from suppression of E2 in the brain and other perihperheral tissue, it may be the drug itself that is causing your ED. I have never used Letro, but I was on Adex when I first started TRT and it put a damper on my libido and erections. I had my E2 dialed in in the mid 20’s or so, but it didn’t seem to do the trick. As soon as I switched to Aromasin instead, with the same E2 levels, the problem partially corrected itself.[/quote]

Adex kills my sex drive too… that’s why I do low dose letro. I’ve been fine on letro before, and I find it handles my very mild gyno the best while giving me the least side effects.

[quote]seekonk wrote:

[quote]abc123d wrote:

[quote]seekonk wrote:

[quote]abc123d wrote:

Estradiol 56 <157pmol/L (I use low doses of letro… different amounts or
eliminating it had 0 effect on sex drive.)
[/quote]

Your estradiol is 15 pg/mL in more conventional units.

This is quite low, and may be causing some of your problems.

AIs like letro can cause problems even if estradiol is not low, because serum values are an average indicator over many body tissues. For example, maybe the AI is suppressing E2 just enough in the fat tissue but at the same time too much in the brain, and we cannot control this. An AI is a very blunt instrument.

You say adjusting or eliminating the AI has no effect on sex drive, but are you giving it enough time? E2 changes do not have an immediate effect - the body has to get used to it. It can take libido a number of weeks (4-6) to catch up once you have corrected E2 levels. [/quote]

My sex drive was low before, even when I was taking the lowest dose of letro possible and my estradiol was 3x higher on blood tests, and sex drive wasn’t much different. [/quote]

Maybe even the lowest dose of letro was suppressing E2 too much in your brain - you wouldn’t know that by testing serum E2 because that’s just an average from all tissues.

Also, are you taking any other drugs or supplements that have been reported to suppress libido, like finasteride/dutasteride, antidepressants, opioids, green tea extract, soy, curcumin (turmeric), licorice, or fish oil?

You also really should have a doctor get to the root of your high CRP.[/quote]

Good point. The doctor said that the CRP is meaningless unless it’s high again on the next blood test, which I’ll do in the next few weeks or so.

I do take finasteride, and while I know that it suppresses my sex drive, last time my sex drive was higher I was also on finasteride. I also take green tea and fish oil… but my supps are generally the same, while the sex drive varies like crazy.

Sex drive can sometimes gradually get worse over time on something like finasteride, so the fact that you have in the past had better drive on it does not necessarily eliminate it as a suspect. Likewise, it can also take a while to regain it once you stop.

There is a long thread here somewhere in which a lot of people complain about (sometimes gradual) loss of sex drive on fish oil.