T Nation

Low LH Question

Ok after being on then off TRT for the last two years Im finally getting a handle on my cause but I have a few questions regarding low LH levels.

A quick background. I was on TRT, then came off last september and tried a natural restart HCG for a month then Nolvadex for 4 weeks. I had good results with this and had blood tests about 3 weeks after going off the Nolvadex in December 2012.

TT=662
FT=18.2
E2=23.7
LH=9.0
This is the highest my LH has tested, normally has been between around 2.5 and 4, and my entire hormone panel on the low side, TT and E2 both being low.

I just had another test done February 2013 and my numbers are roughly half.
TT=327
E2=12.7
LH=4.9

Its become clear that my LH being on the low side causes all my hormone levels to drop, and now the affects of the Nolvadex have worn off and my levels are all low again. I’ve never had an MRI to check my pituitary for tumors, but its clear that LH is the area where the problem lies. Im trying to avoid going back on TRT for the rest of my life.

Is there a way to safely increase my LH level for long term hormone stability? Any Help is much appreciated!

How old are you?

Have you checked your Vitamin D-3 Blood levels?

Do you sleep well or have any stress issues?

All of this can affect your LH levels and consequently testosterone levels.

LH changes a lot from hour to hour. FSH is a better indicator. In any case, TT and E2 are telling the story. Without age, we do not know if we are looking at age related decline or a young man’s problem. There is reason why we ask that you keep everything in your original thread.

Lowering E2 will not increase TT as it is already low. You need prolactin data.

I’m 37 years old, got diagnosed with low T about a year ago. Did testim for a clp months and then T-cyp for about 6 months. I decided to get off before damage was done and try to restart naturally, which seemed to work but now my levels are all low after about 3 months off of the nolvadex.

I’m hoping there is more of a long term solution to get my LH up and thus my TT and E2 back into the mid range.

My stress level is probably very normal, and I sleep good about 8hrs a night, I’m fairly active although I don’t lift often. I play recreation softball at least 3 days a week most of the year. I’m 6ft and 200lbs. Not much fat, estrodol has never been high.

Does anyone have any real experience with these products, which claim to increase LH levels?

Forskotin
Resveratrol
DAA

Can I take Nolvadex as much as 4 times a year? It worked great but the effects didn’t last more than 3 months before they tapered off, so would it be damaging to cycle Nolvadex like 4 weeks on, 8 weeks off?

[quote]Jdeck wrote:

But based on my results it has narrowed down the underlying cause which is secondary hypogonadism.[/quote]

I don’t think you can diagnose secondary hypo from that one LH reading, since first of all it does not seem low (you didn’t state the reference range though) and second, LH oscillates every hour or so, so if you happen to get it at one moment in that hour you will get a low value and half an hour later you might get a much higher value. As Ksman said, FSH is a better indicator since it does not oscillate as drastically.

All my numbers today are roughly half what they were in December after doing the Nolvadex to jumpstart by natural productions. I believe this tells me my testes are functioning properly if given a higher signal to produce by the LH being 9 instead of 5. Hence why I am looking for a way to increase my LH without having to go on TRT at this point in my life.

Eventually someday I probably will need to return to TRT, but for now if I can limp along by supplementing to get LH/FSH higher my body will keep my T and E2 wihtin the normal range without taking Test.

Everything I have read about seems to either be overhyped, or lacking any real data, or only a short term solution to bump LH. Which is why I was asking if Novadex can be cycled as much as 4 times a year without creating any long term sides.

What was your nolvadex dosing? If too much, LH levels can be very high, then the LH receptors might be somewhat desensitized, then you have trouble responding well to LH later.

Are you ignoring prolactin? If high, that explains the problem.

4 weeks at your recommended dose from another thread. 40/40/20/20. I’ll read up on prolactin. Its not something they have ever tested me for.

You could still be primary not secondary. I have seen people with similar LH levels as you yet at the same time much higher testosterone.

Some TRT doctors such as Crisler are keeping some guys permanently (year-round) on Clomid monotherapy at a low dose of around 12.5 mg per day or even lower in some cases with good results. The same can probably be done with Nolvadex, but a much lower dose should be sufficient. If you take into account that 20 mg Nolva was about equivalent to 150 mg Clomid for the purpose of short-term testosterone stimulation (as seen in one study) and extrapolate that to the low doses of 12.5 mg Clomid Crisler is recommending, I would guess most guys shouldn’t need much more than 2 mg Nolvadex per day for TRT purposes, if that.

The medical community is stuck in a Clomid rut. Some have terrible estrogenic side effects from Clomid. Nolvadex does the same thing, but is a not-steroidal AI that does not have the problems of Clomid.

Yes, partial doses might be better. You can check T, E2, LH and FSH while on.

I hear you KSman, I would prefer to stay away from the estrogenic affects if possible, however if more people are using Clomid for TRT it might make more sense than myself being a guinee pig for 2mg of nolva. I’ve not seem problems from estrogen though. E2 has seemed to mirror my T, if my T is normal my E2 is normal. If T is low my E2 is low.

2mg nolva would be something like 2 drops Im guessing since 20mg/ml. Have you guys ever heard of anyone doing this with Nolvadex?

Your point about not being a guinea pig is very valid.

You could see how you do on low dose Clomid therapy given that this is what most doctors do and see if you actually have estrogenic sides or not. I got bad depression from it but everyone is different. Most people who get estrogenic sides get them at doses that are too large. For long term TRT you want only something like 12.5 mg per day.

I have seen a number of anecdotal accounts where people actually report better libido from Clomid than Nolva. You need some estrogenic effect also for libido, so the fact that Clomid is estrogenic at some receptors is not necessarily a bad thing. it is possible that Nolva might be too anti-estrogenic in the brain in some people compared to Clomid.

I had my prolactin checked. It is normal so not likely a tumor (I will take that as good news). After doing my trial runs, my restart, my blood tests, I’ve come back to the low hormones being caused by low sensitivty of my testes. When my LH is normal my hormones are all low, but when I kickstarted my LH with Nolvadex it was higher than normal limit with Nolvadex, my hormones go up to normal range as shown below. I think the range for LH is (1.25 to 8)

I took the 4 wk cycle of Nolvadex from mid november to mid december and had my blood drawn at the end of Dec.
Dec
LH=9
TT=662
E2=23.7

Feb
LH4.9
TT=327
E2=12.7

What is the danger of taking clomid or nolva for longterm boost of LH/FSH? Its either that or back on TRT forever.

Your low LH has a hidden source and you need to find it. Can be hypothyroidism and or adrenal fatigue. I see many man fixing their low T problems by fixing their adrenal problems then they get back to normal life.

At 4.9 my LH is actually very normal, but my T is low. If I drive my LH up to a higher number like 9(which is higher than the normal range), then my T goes to normal. Its like my testes are not sensitive enough.

I have low body temps apparently, so I’m thinking Iodine Deficiency maybe.

I Looked through my labs in 2011 I had TSH of 2.3(.45-4.5), T4 was tested in 2012 7.7(4.5-12)and my dr said if my knee reflexs were good, my thyroid was fine so he never tested me since.

I started Potassium Iodide on 3/23 at 65mg, and will keep up with my body temps and see how I feel after a week or so.

3/23
97.2 at 8AM
97.7 at 11AM
98.6 at 12
97.7 at 5PM

3/24
97.3 at 730AM
97.9 at 11AM
98.2 at 230PM
98.3 at 5
97.9 at 9PM

3/25
97.2 at 8AM
97.9 at 10AM
98.6 at 2PM
98.3 at 4:30PM

How long should I take the Potassium Idodide?

The pills are 50mg Iodine and 15mg potasium. I think they are produced for Radiation poisoning, but hopefully it’ll work for Iodine Deficiancy also. Im just not sure how many days I should take them.