want to add somthing i still have slightly sensitive left nip but it doesnt bother me and my gains are just normal or better than before but whole physique better than it has even been
well i will wait til flip or yogi or one of the other top end vets chimes in on the rest but iirc i’ve never seen any studies implying that test e will actually fuck up your collagen production, bursitis and joint issues tend to just come from jumping the weight up too high too fast since your ligaments and tendons will take longer to strengthen than muscle tissue.
im pretty sure i was injured bec lack of proper warmup or good form during trainnig i read about test e and collagen but not an academic article though . But this was yrs ago anyways what i meant was that i suffered several injuries ( shoulder then minor pec tear ) but i manged to get back while my hormones were still messed …
I’m not great at interpreting bloodwork, but as for your questions:
The likelihood of you having done any permanent damage is very, very small. Honestly, judging by how much you’re freaking out I wouldn’t be surprised if some of your symptoms are all in your head. Like I said - I’m not expert but your numbers don’t look all that bad.[quote=“beastx12, post:1, topic:220625”]
why my hormones improved havent all this time while i was off , i didnt take any thing or drugs or even supps that mess with them??
the problem is you didn’t get baseline numbers before you cycled, so you have no idea if those levels are what your body naturally likes to sit at. It’s very possible that those are your natural numbers.
I’ve never looked into boron but vit D and zinc are both supplements I consider essential.[quote=“beastx12, post:1, topic:220625”]
will another cycle ( test 500 /eq 400 ) fix this as after shout down i will start over hoping to fix every thing with my pct ??
No. Definitely not. Think about it. You’re asking if making things worse for your HPTA will make it better.
Honestly, if you genuinely think you are still suffering side effects from your last cycle you should not even think about cycling again. Wait until you feel normal, then once you feel normal wait a bit longer, then go on again if you think it’s worth the risk. If a low-dose, test-only cycle can fuck you up this bad then you have to ask yourself if steroids are worth it for you.
and if a gyno specialist doctor has told you that you don’t have gyno, you don’t. Quit poking your nips so much and I bet it stops hurting.
Trust me - it is VERY obvious if you have gyno.
thank you yogi for you reply i agree that i would have made things easier if i have done some lab work and if they are ,i would feel the same as before the cycle but still gets wood i would say occasionally and still kind of depressed well and low libido ( iam 22) but i can manage those things but judging by how i feel and overall health ( i can get work done )about 70 % better than i was during the rebound as i didnt have the energy to do anything
so should i wait this out till every thing is okay and normal again ?
can HPTA fix it self with no extra meds if i wasited enouight ?
i live in a country where there are no gyno specialists only endo and im kind of sure that these docs didnt knew what to do about it as i kept explaining all type of things: A ,I serms to tell them about what i did in the cylce.
the only person who got it was my surgeon a( he did alot of gyno surgeries so i trusted his opinion ) and he told me it only in my left nipple( whichh is true ) - and i shouldnt pay 5000-6000 to get rid of something minor like this - ( but its there and i know i can do nothing to fix it so it doesnt bother me if its not growing but judging by my e2 and SHGB level … well i dunno ) guess i will wait till someone explain the blood test results
waiting it out for my system to fix it natuaraly wont bother me but staying fked like this forever that`s what worries me .
maybe i thought about cycling again out of the need to feel how having normal - high test feel like , the energy the libido etc … but i think that was for the wrong reasons any how i wont think about any kind of drugs till iam healthy again
well I’m not a doctor and I don’t play one on the internet, but if you really wanted to medicate yourself, here’s what I would do:
-clomid 25mg a day
-aromasin 6.25mg a day
I’m not suggesting this is what you do, as it might not be necessary, but if I didn’t feel like I had recovered from a cycle and wanted to try some sort of pharmaceutical intervention a few months afterwards then that’s what I’d do. It’s a very low dose of both.
I’d do that until I felt better, then I’d taper off and see how I felt after that.
It really is the case that most people’s hormones will go back to normal, however there is the occasional unlucky person.
I appretiate your quick responses yogi
Iam a patient person so i guess i will wait it out i dont feel like taking any thing to interfer with my hormones if there is a slight hope that will return to normal eventually but all i want to know is it possible judging by the not so big change in my lab test along 9 months i know u prefer not to comment on this subject but i will wait tell someone do
Rather than that i guess you answered all my other questions thank alot yogi for your help
Ah and i started taking 5000iu vit D3 & 13mg zinc along with my multivatimen
And maybe i will try this protocol along the way if i do i will make a new post about it to help others as well.
I think this is the best option. Best of luck with it all.
OP your free test is low and your E2 is high for a dude, whith your SHBG high as well. You don’t have any baseline data from before your cycle so you dont know what normal values for you really are, but that value of E2 is not enough to give you gyno. It might be enough to make them sensitive but it is 100% within normal values.
E2 level of 22-25 is where most guys feel best though it is 100% possible this is normal E2 value for you, and SHBG needs to be lowered. However none of these things are likely to be solved by taking more compounds.
You need to quit freaking out. That is most of your problem.
Yesterday i started using vit d3 5000iu with zinc along with my normal vmultivitamin can this be enought for shgb to decrease as from what i understand that if it goes down there will be more free test available thus e2 will dec.
I can make blood work 2 weeks from now though for the (LH.FSH.FT.SHGB) and see or this will be too soon
you are right i am now focusing on finding a plan and sticking to to it after deciding to wait till and not take any more compounds
No, you may feel better with more free test (most probably you will), but free testosterone is the exact substrate that aromatase uses to convert to E2 so if you have more free test you will have no decrease in E2 and may see an increase if all else remains the same. That is one of the many reasons SHBG exists…to bind T and prevent uncontrolled aromatization as well as transport both Test AND estradiol in the blood stream. SHBG has a higher affinity for binding and in-activating testosterone than estrogens in men.
E2 and SHBG feedback on each other. Higher E2 levels promote an increase of SHBG.
Natural factors affecting E2 are amount of fat tissue (aromatase activity is higher in fat tissue than lean tissue), poor nutrition, weight gain (see fat tissue), etc. It may be useful for you to take vitamin E and resveratrol as well. Data is limited but suggest that they may help control aromatase. In general make sure your nutrition is on point and you’re doing some conditioning to prevent fat gain. I don’t know how lean you are. I would suggest in general omega 3 fatty acids as well just because of their overall health impacts. Foods rich in catechins may also help as there is some evidence there, but again not extremely robust. Tea, cocoa (like actual cocoa not chocolate bars), and pomegranate type foods, vinegar, peaches and barley. Tea is probably your best most concentrated source.
It may be useful to take something like tribulus may help, but not sure. Literature is divided on its having an effect. Forskolin seems to have an affect on LH and test.
if you want to try and shrink the gyno you have now, then i’d suggest running aromasin and raloxifene.
60 mg/day of ralox, and up to 25 mg/night of aromasin… adjust that as needed. it should help your total and free testosterone levels as well.
i see … so SHGB is probably hight due to my hight E2 which in turn dec my natrual FT
i am in a pretty good shape and by that i mean 10 -12 % max ( visible 6 packs and vieny shoulder ) i once competed ( naturally ) before giving test a go so i know a thing or two about conditioning so i guess fat may not be the issue
when it comes to nutrition i have been counting macros ( myfitnesspal ) since i was 18 … i even have 270 days in a row on it
TBH @Aragorn if feel like iam lost i already waited about 8 months and i see no progress but as i stated iam pretty patient
i supplement with VIT E 15 iu daily for about a year now ( in my regular multivitmain ) + 1-2 cups of tea daily ( a habit really ) i will read about reservatrol and try to add it to my antioxidant if tea is not enough
wont tribuluse or forskollin Inc LH (Mine was 5 )( min0.8 max 9.1 ) it
s the only thing i think is near normal and increase FT which willl increase E2 and IN Retrun further inc SHGB its like a loop
i will add more tea and may get tribulus today and wait 1 day or 2 and tell you
well i read this http://www.yourhormones.info/Hormones/Androstenedione.aspx
and damn that seems more complex to fix and LH and FSH are responsible for the production so a pct ( nolva + clomid + aromasin ) will resovle according to this article BTW ( aromasin is not available in my country ,
i can take adex with clomid but afraid of E2 revound and and generaly afraid of any more coumpounds entering my body but if its the only chance i will get to normal level i guess i will
my only target is to help my tests to get back to normal as i felt like crap yesterday and today too tired
aromasin is not availabe even though i lve in a country where steroids are legal but they just dont prefer aromasin as its expensive and rarely asked for here and i guess nolva+ adex will be counter productive
my gyno dont bother me its not even visible and it only gets sensitive in some days and vanish in others
this is a small part of a topic i read i dont know if iam allowed to post links here
"Forskolin, cAMP, and Testosterone Production
Testosterone is produced in testicular Leydig cells when LH binds to surface receptors and initiates a signaling cascade involving elevated levels of cAMP. This cascade leads ultimately to increased levels of StAR (4), an important Leydig cell cholesterol transfer protein (testosterone is made from cholesterol) and activation of steroidogenic enzymes involved in testosterone production (5). So by elevating levels of cAMP, (with forskolin) an intermediate in the signaling cascade that ranges from LH binding to testosterone production, we should see an increase in testosterone output. This may be particularly important for those of us who are feeling the effects of aging. In a study by Chen et.al.,(6) the authors looked at cAMP levels in young and old rats, and found that testosterone production declined with age as a function of declining cAMP levels. So something is keeping LH from elevating cAMP and inducing steroidogenesis is aging rats. Notably, in the older rats, cAMP levels were restored to youthful levels upon administration of forskolin.
The authors speculate that free radical damage at some step in the LH-cAMP signaling cascade lessens the ability of LH to elevate cAMP and produce testosterone. So in addition to forskolin use, regular use of a good free radical quencher might help to maintain testosterone production in aging men at youthful levels. "
what does the last 4 paragraphes mean by lessen the ability pf LH to elevate cAMP and produce test does that mean that LH may be high but still unable to do its job due to LH-cAMP damage and if LH act synergistically with FSH Does that mean that my low FSH level are hendering the effect of my LH thus making FT low etc…
this is pretty confusing when seraching for an answer as there seems that every turn is the wrong turn
i was planning to add 10mg/kg of magnesium too i though that encouriging your body to produce test is not the same adding exogenous test as helping my body to produce FT , LH will balance things out naturally at least that`s what i thought ? if not then i should stop taking all the excess vitamins as it may make matters worse?
hey @KSman sorry to just mention you in this thread but i have been following Nozza and guyali post and i found you know alot about labtests and hormones in general … so if you could just give your opinion on my lab results and what to do beside waiting and taking vitamins as im 22 and the idea of taking cialis or tribulus for the next 5-10 years is scary
if there are any more tests need to be done its no problem
i have been using vitamen D3 5000iu with 14 mg Zinc daily which i feel have positivly increased my test but for the past 7 days i have had bad mood which refelcted on my studying
, Gym and eating habits feeling not good i can still go to gym i have the energy but i feel like i rather not …
my nips started to feel sensitve and puffy again with sligh pain while my lab results didn’t show a massive e2 increase which confuses me as i am clean for 2 years now from any drugs SERMS AI etc…
my libido is not so bad (no morning woods still ) but i have no problem getting it up and masterb is not a problen ( at least these days as that wasnt the case earlier )
so tommorow i deceided to go make a blood test
is there any other thing i need to test for …
I still dont know what the problem is thyroid , HPTA iodine defdecient well i dunno yet and i hope testing tmrw well aid in my understanding .
judging by tommorows results i may consider
a)using arimidex + Nolvadex
although i need to know how to taper off and how specificaly dosage works out of cycle
and iam really afraid of the estrogen rebound (this was the main problem in the first place )
aslo … aromasin cant get it and i tried all means so i can only work with adex or letro in terms of AI
b)wait it out
which i cant do it any more 2 years already and iam not getting any better
c)go to an endo
which im sure he will say that "every thing is in range dont worry "
i could make have a gynk surgery but as long as my hormones is not in check i am afraid it will re-Occur
i need to know uour opinion on this as it is really bothering me with my life more than i can explain by writing
i will try and edit the post to make it more clear for others now