T Nation

Low Estrogen Levels

Ok, as I reported a few weeks ago, I got the following lab reports back after my two months on anastrazole (not taking Testosterone replacement):

Total T: 822
Free T: 15.8
Estradiol: 24

I’ve been doing about 10 drops of the anastrazole, so somewhere between 1.0 mg and 1.5 mg per week. This is a little bit more than I was initially taking. when I began I was sticking more or less with the 1.0 mg per week dosage. I increased because I was anticipating a rebound effect.

However, the last week, I have started to feel lethargic and my muscles have started to feel funny, a bit stiff. I thought (and still am considering) that it might be due to poor sleep or overtraining. However, these do seem to be the symptoms some of you have described for low estrogen. Do you agree? What would be some other symptoms, if any?

I (perhaps stupidly) took 10 drops of the anastrazole today. However, I am thinking about cutting down next time. What do you think might be a good dosage 8 drops, 6 drops for my next intake (day after tomorrow)?

Anybody with experience dealing with this, I would appreciate your input, if for no other reason than moral support :slight_smile:

I’ve scheduled an appointment with an anti-aging doctor around here (who is on the board of LEF) but unfortunately he won’t be available til the end of April. Until then I am still on my own. I will probably get another blood test, before I meet with him, just to monitor myself a bit more. Besides estradiol, total t and free t, any thoughts on additional test data I might get?

10 drops per day or 10 drops EOD?

10 drops EOD is 1.17mg/wk

Could you have done 10drops one day after another?

What rebound effect were you anticipating?

E2=24 is not bad, 1.16mg/wk should be doing a good job.

You can skip a dose then go with less and note changes. From my arthritic experience and from what I have seen others describe, problems seem to be more in the joints. Lethargy and loss of libido would be consistent with E2 levels too low. I have seen that described consistently, especially for the anastrozole over-responders who get E2 in the lower teens or single digits with 1mg/wk.

I used to think that anastrozole was self limiting in its E2 lowering effects. That was a clear indication in a widely read research paper that showed young normal men on 1mg/day or 2mg/day both reaching the same end point of 17pg/ml. Those on 2mg/day got there faster. That seemed like the final word on this issue. But the more that I read and have reported to me in PMs, the more suspect the implications of that research seem to be. Perhaps anastrozole works that way with young vital virile men, but it does not seem to be consistent what happens with older guys on TRT.

Other writings have suggested that 17pg/ml is optimal from a libido point of view. That coupled with that research really made it seem that anastrozole was perfect. It is the best AI available. But its dosing does not seem to be as fool proof as expected.

Some guys may also not do well on a lower E2 number that is perfect for some others. There is simply no data on such things. The only thing one can do is to change doses and observe ones own responses, noting what is good and what is bad, then using these as a dosing guide.

[quote]KSman wrote:
10 drops per day or 10 drops EOD?
10 drops EOD is 1.17mg/wk

[/quote]

10 drops EOD

Yes, I know but that was from about 3 weeks ago. Friday of last week, I started feeling tired and a little achy, sore in the joints (right hip, knees a bit), legs feeling very heavy. So apparently I went beyond the “sweet spot”.
As I said, at first I thought that I had overtrained, but now there is no doubt in my mind that I somehow dropped my estrogen levels a little bit too low.

Think that my libido is still ok. Lethargy seems to have lifted a bit today, feeling better. I think, as you suggest, that I will skip tomorrow’s (Saturday) dose and restart on Monday with 7 or 8 drops. I am wondering if the soreness will immediately disappear with slight rise in estrogen or linger on for a while. I intend to use my soreness as a guide.

I think that is correct. The estradiol of 24 was from a lab of about three weeks ago, so two weeks before I started to have the lethargy, etc. It’s too bad that I can’t go have a blood test today (as you know it takes about a week for the LEF orders to arrive) to see exactly what my E level is today. That would give a good indication of what is too low for me. T E level of 24 is probably around my sweet spot.

I suspect that once I get over this dip in E, that the best dosage for the time being is 1.0 mg/week or maybe even a little less. Next week, I will probably do just 7 or 8 drops each time (EOD), so just short of 1 mg/week.

As I said, I have an appointment with a Doctor down here that specializes in this stuff, Dr. Miller, http://www.antiaging.com/

NI wrote an email to him (Dr. Miller) and explained this current little problem to which he replied with the following:

<<Most likely you had a small “bump” in your free testosterone
levels of subsequent to aromatase inhibition. We never
suggest using 1 mg of anastrazole. The dose is much too
high. We compound this in 0.1 mg capsules to be taken
daily. It is a much more rational dose. Frequently, with
any hormonal modulation, you will have an initial rise and
then the body will re adjust in homeostatic fashion. Beyond
this there are probably other factors.>>

Hmmm, what do you make of that? It seems to me like he either misunderstood me and thought I took 1.0 mg at one dosage or that he believes in all cases that 1.0 mg/week is too strong a dose (which does not jive with what people are reporting on T-Nation). Wonder what he means by a “bump” in my free testosterone.

Anyway, as always, thanks KSMan for your input.

I use one drop (that’s right, ONE) per day and feel quite good. I must be a BIG responder to Ana. If I took 10 drops EOD, I think I’d die.

None was bad and 2 drops was bad. One is just right. Lucky me, the bottle will last for years.

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
I use one drop (that’s right, ONE) per day and feel quite good. I must be a BIG responder to Ana. If I took 10 drops EOD, I think I’d die.

None was bad and 2 drops was bad. One is just right. Lucky me, the bottle will last for years.[/quote]

Wow, headhunter! That’s about 0.2 mg/week. Now how did you arrive at that amount? Surely, the first few times you tried Anastrazole (Arimidex) you used more than one drop. Could you please share with us your experience and how you arrived at that dosage?

[quote]entheogens wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
I use one drop (that’s right, ONE) per day and feel quite good. I must be a BIG responder to Ana. If I took 10 drops EOD, I think I’d die.

None was bad and 2 drops was bad. One is just right. Lucky me, the bottle will last for years.

Wow, headhunter! That’s about 0.2 mg/week. Now how did you arrive at that amount? Surely, the first few times you tried Anastrazole (Arimidex) you used more than one drop. Could you please share with us your experience and how you arrived at that dosage?

[/quote]

I started out with 8 drops EOD. I felt great but got intestinal upset really bad, fucking terrible. I kept cutting the dose until the symptoms went away. When I stopped altogether, I felt lousy and 2 brought back the symptoms, though not as bad.

If I play with the dose again, I’ll wait until summer break. I can’t leave a class full of teens alone to make a mad dash to the can.

Yes a 1mg tablets makes dosing refinement impossible or difficult.

Adex is not very water soluble, but is in alcohol. One guy used vodka to make a ‘low dose’ solution. That can work with tabs or to cut liquid adex.

A liquid is really the way to go.

…sorry for the bit of a hijack here but does this sound about right. I’ve counted it out two or three times and it seems that I’m getting approx seven drops per 1/4mg of liquid, or 28 drops per/mg.

If I were to start out taking four drops EOD, then over a 14 day period I should be getting 1mg (7 x 4 = 28drops), so I’d be dosing at approx 1/2mg per week??..

[quote]hebsie wrote:
…sorry for the bit of a hijack here but does this sound about right. I’ve counted it out two or three times and it seems that I’m getting approx seven drops per 1/4mg of liquid, or 28 drops per/mg.

If I were to start out taking four drops EOD, then over a 14 day period I should be getting 1mg (7 x 4 = 28drops), so I’d be dosing at approx 1/2mg per week??..[/quote]

If you’re using the common 1mg/ml anastrozole, then it’s ok to equate mg with ml, but with other compounds in other concentrations, this would be a problem. That having been said, yes, your arithmetic is correct.

[quote]happydog48 wrote:

If you’re using the common 1mg/ml anastrozole, then it’s ok to equate mg with ml, but with other compounds in other concentrations, this would be a problem. That having been said, yes, your arithmetic is correct.[/quote]

…yes, it’s the common 1mg/ml ‘research-chem’ anastrozole. Thanks for the speedy reply…

Well, the good news is that after skipping my dose on Saturday, the lethargy, stiff joints, etc, went away. So, I guess if you do make the mistake of getting low E, it is rapidly corrected by just stopping dosage for a couple of days.

I was feeling at 100 percent today, so I decided to take 6 drops of anastrazole. We’ll see how I do taking 6-8 drops for a while.

The really beautiful thing about adex is its’ 50 hour half life. If you’ve taken too much in two days you’re out of trouble and ready to readjust your dosage. I’m on 45 drops a week (8 drops 5 days, 5 drops one day, and one day off)
1.5mg/week. I used to take 2mg/week and felt tired with a E2<32 so I went down to 1mg/week and got bacne, so I worked back up to 1.5mg/week. No libido issues, no bacne, no sore joints, and positive attitude too. My doctor wanted me on 2mg/week, we talked, and he’s fine with 1.5mg instead of 2.