T Nation

Low Estrogen 1.5 Months after PCT, Losing Hope

hey guys.
I was a Testosterone user for almost 10 months during 2019.
in November 2019 I decided to come off testosterone after a period of overdosing Arimdix
and bad e2 side effects.

I did my first PCT in 12/2019 and I took HCG 1000ui one a week and during same time i took 50mg of clomid, which was a mistake taking together and i felt horribly.

And this was my results after my first pct was:
LH - 7UI RANGE 1 - 9 (which is at the high end of LH range)
Total testosterone - 17nmol/l range 6-26nmol/l
estrogen - 168pmol/l
progestrone - 2nmol/l - range 2-4
Prolactin - 130miu/l range 45-375

AND DESPITE HAVING NORMAL E2 I still felt very low e2 (dry and unable to maintain water in my body, all of the symptoms of having low e2.

on the advice of the members of this forums I decided to do another PCT , and I took 750UI of hcg alone for 2 weeks ( total of 1500ui)
followed by 3 weeks of 25mg of Clomid .

The second PCT was over 45 days ago , and i still feel like shit.

I trying to understand why Im not recovering.

my assumption are ;
1.Leydig cells are desensetized , and that explain the high LH.
2.maybe takes more times for the recovery
3.impaired Aromtase function because of Overdosing for 3 months
4.HPTA is still in a shutdown
5.Too much androgens like DHT prevent aromtase .
6.The high e2 in the test reflects Clomid Metabolites and does not reflects values , and I dont have E2 sensitve test in my country.

thank you
Please help me redeem myself from this 6 months hell.

You’re assuming its low e2 when it just maybe low t and or a shut down HPTA.

10 months is a long cycle and the risk of not being the same is possible.

With the LH on the higher side, it’s possible you’ve sustained some testicular damage since your pituitary is really trying to work to drive more test into your system.

Your PCT is also TERRIBLY weak for the duration of time you’ve been on cycle. 2 weeks of HCG and 3 weeks of clomid is weak sauce bro. I would’ve done hcg, 500iu 3x weekly for a month, followed by nolvadex and or clomid for about 6-8 weeks at low-moderate dosages.

All in all, you’re most likely still shutdown. You’ve already completed the PCT and i dont think you should hop on another one again so soon. I’d get some good quality supplements and eat very well, continuing to train too.

I would give it more time to see if you can recover.

If nothing gets better in 90 days, you’ll probably need to start taking a hard look at TRT, and even then that comes with its own battle.

I’m a former roid user (just a couple of Msten cycles and 2-500mg/12wk cycles) and i’m still working on dialing in my test.

Time is going to be your friend here. Get more comprehensive labs in 2-3 months time and see where you are.

Total T
Free T
Thyroid panel
Iron panel
Metabolic & Lipid panel

Good luck.

This is the only plausible thing from your list. Be patient. These things are like glaciers, they move real slow.

My explanation on the "weak pct’ is that I had the clomid vision side effects and my time on clomid was pure hell.
Another explanation for the high LH is that my low E2 is causing the increase of Lh , the same way that Clomid increase lh by blocking e2 in the pitutary .

I have read about FSH- dependent aromtase , and maybe I just need to wait to see if my body create my aromatse due the increase of fsh dependent aromtase ,and maybe coming back to TRT is a bad idea because of the suppression of fsh (I don’t actually know if trt does inhibits fsh .
regrading working out - I really feel dry and after i workout i tend to shake , and if I dont eat alot of sodium , I feel fatigue and confused.
Next week I having a new blood test and i’ll update them in this post
thank you

I would like to hear more opinions about the subject from other members
@KSman - I would really like to hear your opinion please.

Man @KSman is long gone. His ideas are antiquated and were more detrimental than helpful long term. He’s a good guy though.

I could be wrong, but low e2 doesn’t raise LH. Never heard of that before.

It still doesn’t change the fact that your PCT was very weak. You needed to run HCG longer. Clomid is def a shit drug, I would’ve swapped Nolva at 20/20/20/10/10/10.

I think you need to get off the low e2 idea. I think it’s too simplistic to just blame low e2 when you literally just came off an almost 1 year cycle.

LH & FSH are indicative of testicular health and how well your pituitary is sending messages to your testicles, but getting those right alone doesn’t mean shit. i say this from personal experience. I had my LH at 6.4 and my FSH at 3.1 at my best restart attempt but my free test was still absolute garbage.

In the end, it’s best to give it time. I say this matter-of-factly and not critically, when i say your PCT was poorly executed and did not account for your long duration of cycle.

TRT will suppress FSH and LH but that doesn’t matter. You can always add hcg concurrently or use it at the time you want to have kids.

Your hormones are simply fucked up. I gave my body a whole 18 months and never recovered. Hopefully your case will be different. Regardless, no need to fear TRT.

Clomid is estrogenic.


I believe that is related to E2 because all the symptoms are the same as when I overdosed AI during the cycle.
I have zero vascularilty , and I have ed and strong vascular constriction symptoms.
And during the time on HCG I had alot of cum , but in a water form.
right now i have more white cum, but still something is very very off about it, like it doesnt even sticky and weird texture.

I pee every time i drink , I cant have any water in my body .
Also i got some weird feeling in my prostate, like sometimes it is painfull and i have greenish pee
which i tend to think is because of the low e2 causing prostate to be irritated.
When I walk i feel sometimes like my prostate is enlarged.

it is just seems wrong to hop on trt if my e2 is that low , Im gonna lose any chance if recovery to my e2 levels because of the androgenic effect of hopping on test without any e2 to manage the increase of androgens in my body.

Well i did recommend to give it time. You can wait as long as you’d like. I’m just saying you’ll have to consider hormonal replacement at some point if things don’t improve.

However i believe your thinking is pretty flawed, but i’m open to more interpretations should anyone have a rebuttal.

Firstly TRT would increase estrogen. You can’t increase testosterone without increasing estrogen. You don’t really need to worry about managing e2. I never used any AI when i cycled test. The body will correct itself and needs estrogen in proper proportion to testosterone. This is the case more often than not.

You speak as if all your hormones are perfect EXCEPT for low e2. Your whole HPTA is out of wack, period. Plus you already took clomid and hcg, those drugs will increase the fuck out of estrogen. It’s very unlikely you still have low estrogen after taking 2 PCTs.

I think you need to broaden your idea of what happened to you and understand you simply got fucked up from a 10 month cycle.

Just gotta hope that time brings you back, but there are solutions if natty doesn’t work out.

Next blood test will bring me more light to the subject.

Regrading the clomid and hcg increasing estrogen.
Hcg increase the amount of sertoli cells you have in your testiscles and the serotoli cells respond to fsh and create aromatse, this is why hcg increase estrogen.

Clomid on the other hand is increasing fsh and lh and thus increasing the fsh and fsh depend aromatse in the sertoli cells.
And also clomid(it is two drugs in one pill) is both estrogenic and anti estrogenic.
Clomid block er2 receptors and the other drug in clomid is a er1 AGONIST and increase your good cholesterol in your liver.

As i see it maybe i just need to wait for my body to create more aromatse, do more frequent blood tests and consult a endocrinologist and hope.

Meanwhile I would like to hear more opinions.
Thank you

You’re welcome to hear more opinions and i’m also interested to see your bloodwork as well.

In the end, i still think your idea of whats wrong is a bit too myopic.

You’ve read up a good amount on HCG and Clomid which is good. Regardless of the wording you use however, these 2 compounds will increase estrogen.

And keep in mind arimidex doesn’t kill the aromatase enzyme, it will only suppress estrogen. Once you stop arimidex, your estrogen will rebound shortly after.

All in all, i think your problems run a bit deeper than estrogen. However i’m rooting for your recovery regardless.

Good luck.