T Nation

Low E2 Blood results on Testogel


#1

Hi all,

Quick & dirty recap of info:

41 years old
Prescribed TRT for 3 years, Which has been Testogel 50mg onlyonce per day.

No Arimidex ever taken. Very very rarely I take self sourced Nolvadex 10mg in one day.

No HCG.

The Testogel formula has recently changed so I’m now using 60mg once per day.

I’ve never had E2 tested, but now want to do that privately - so I can select what time of day to get blood drawn.

My thoughts were to get blood taken twice on the same day:

First at 8am before I’ve applied that day’s Testogel & 24 hours since the last application - so I get a picture of the lower level of E2 in my body.

Second at 1pm: 4 hours after application of Testogel, so I get a picture of peak/higher levels of E2 in my body.

I also apply Testogel to my stomach area only for 3 days prior to blood work, so I don’t get a hot sample from testosterone gel on my arms where the blood is taken from.

My understanding is the stomach area does cause greater T—>E2 however, because of fat cells on the stomach.

My understanding is also that in general the testosterone gels convert more testosterone to E2 than injections.

Normally I alternate application sites alternate days - upper arms one day, stomach the next day, repeat.

All thoughts appreciated thanks :))


#2

Some skin areas will absorb more than others.

All skin areas have a fat layer in the skin structure and that may be a constant effect.

You could do two tests in a single day and if E2 not greatly changed you would not worry about the issue. If different, what do you do with that data in terms of driving protocol changes?

Nolvadex does not decrease E2, typically increases E2. Arimidex/anastrozole lowers FT->E2.


#3

Thanks KSman. I did not realise Nolva could drive up E2, presumably by increasing natural T through LH?

I actually took a single 20mg of Nolva last night - Feb 19th, will that overly affect my oestradiol blood work?

If it will, should I schedule the blood work for next week?

If the bloods show E2 is an issue, it depends what they show? My thoughts:

If a.m. E2 is ok, but p.m. E2 is high, that looks like a problem, because an AI might drive my E2 too low over night. In that case the problem is with the T delivery mechanism - IE being a gel. The problem is solved by moving from gels to injections?

If both a.m. & p.m. readings are high - I’ll add in some AI as a short term measure but I’ve got recommendations for 2 highly regarded TRT specialists in the UK so longer term I’d go on to injections.

How does that sound ?

I’m confident E2 is quite high, I think it explains why I put on body fat easily, well that together with sub optimal thyroid. But something with E2 is going on.

I’ll find out soon.


#4

I’ve got the morning, pre Testogel bloods back. Still waiting on the post Testogel blood result.

This result was 9.30am, 18 hours since the last Testogel application.

Total T: 8.03 nmol/L range 7.60 - 31.40 nmol/L

17-BETA OESTRADIOL:

43.7 pmol/L Range 0.00 - 191.9 pmol/L

So when my T is at its morning low, my E2 is fine?


#5

Those levels are terrible, yuck. E2 is 11 pg/mL on our scale and should be above 20 pg/mL. Your T needs to be above 23-30 nmol/L.


#6

Even on the trough/valley of the day, before any testosterone has been applied?


#7

@systemlord

Oh mate, you’re going to love this - I just got the blood work from post Testogel application.

These are all from the same day - Thursday 2.22.18

This is 4.5 hours after I’ve put on 60mg of Testogel, so most of the testosterone should be in my system…

Total T:
17.4 nmol/L Range 7.60 - 31.4 nmol/L

Oestradiol:
26 pmol/L Range 0.00 - 191.9 pmol/L

= 7.08 pg/ml

So my close to peak oestradiol is much lower than pre Testogel?? And it’s very low anyway + my Total T isn’t great either…

I’m actually really pleased by these results, because it makes me believe I’d feel so much better if I was on T injections with more optimal T & E2.

I already feel a lot better on TRT than before TRT & there’s a lot of room for improvement.

To be honest I’m tempted to get my own testosterone enanthate & start injections prior to going private & paying for a private TRT doctor in the UK.

That was a bit ranty haha, but I’ve had enough of the NHS, it’s time to find a good specialist in this area, because I want optimal health, not mediocre.


#8

Why would my oestradiol be lower when my testosterone was higher?

Every day as part of my normal diet I eat a lot of cruciferous veg - those that DIM is derived from… and I use turmeric paste + black pepper every morning.

So my diet may well be reducing aromatisation… but that still doesn’t explain lower E2 when my T was higher.


#9

You’re not going to find people to knowledgeable when it comes to transdermals and lab testing, the majority of guys here do injections.


#10

I’ll be injecting soon, I think!