T Nation

Low Dose Test/Deca, Opinions of Caber Needs?

I am looking at running a low dose of Test and Deca for 10-12 weeks (Test C at 200-250/week for 12, Deca at 150-200 for 10) with a Tbol/Winny finisher at 30mg of each for the last 4 weeks as I have heard that they work well together.

I understand that Caber is almost vital to combat prolactin issues on higher doses of Deca- 300mg/week or higher. I am primarily interested in the joint benefits and slightly increased nitrogen retention/lean gains to compliment the test while keeping water retention low. Aromasin would be taken on cycle at 12.5mg EOD to start. Is the general consensus regarding Caber at such a low dose that it isn’t needed until higher doses are reached or would it be wise to keep a few Caber pills on hand in a worst-case scenario. I can get legit Pfizer Caber at $130 for 8 x .5mg pills but that can get pricey for a whole cycle’s worth.

Curious on people’s thoughts on this as well as low dose test/deca cycles in general.

Personally I never use Deca but understand people get great results using it and as you have mentioned it can be good for joints.

Caber should be taken twice per week at 0.25mg. Upping to 0.5 if necessary and a max dose of 1mg twice per week. If you are needed 1mg twice per week then a trip to the doctors is probably needed!

Some old school guys say always run high test than a 19nor compound (Tren/Deca) to avoid any dick problems! This of course is bro science and any erection problems are prolactin based so as long as you are running some test (some guys just run HCG when using tren with no test!) then you are all good…

I would up the test to 500mg per week just so the cycle is more worth while… 250mg per week isnt by no means pointless but still mild at that.

Any PCT planned?

1 Like

Of course. I know Deca can shut one down particularly hard, so I was planning on a 6 week PCT instead of the standard 4-

Clomid 50/50/25/25/25/25
Nolva 40/40/20/20/20/10
Aromasin continued through PCT at 12.5mg EOD

I am currently on a 10 week cycle of 400/wk Test Cyp with a 6 week Tbol kicker and Proviron for the remainder and 2 week bridge into PCT. This would be my first run with Deca so I was looking to keep it low to test the waters a bit before attempting a higher combination of Test/Deca together in which case I would definitely keep Caber on hand. I am just curious as to how necessary it is at lower amounts.

Sounds like you might aswell be cruising lol… planning another cycle while still on one!

No dis im currently cruising :wink:

Everyone is different, I ran Deca once at 250mg per week with no need for Caber…

People on this forum have posted new PCT protocols of just picking once SERM at a lower dose for a longer period of time… For example 20mg Nolva for 8+ weeks… This might be something to look at if you plan to come off for a while after using deca.

Any HCG on cycle?

Lol. My current cycle + PCT will end at the end of June and I wasn’t planning jumping back on until November or even the first of the year.

I haven’t used HCG on cycle but would be open to it with the inclusion of Deca. I haven’t used it on just test/oral cycles and have recovered well in the past. If so I would include 500iu/week for the last 3 weeks leading into PCT.

If I were to want to include Clomid for a shorter time along with Nolva-

Clomid at 50/50/25/25
Nolva at 20/20/20/20/20/20/20/20

would it be beneficial at all?

If you want to do everything by the book then run HCG from the get go.

Generally 250-300 iu 2-3 times per week is sufficient, depending on dose.

If HCG is used leading up to or during PCT it is causing un-necessary stimulus to the LH rather than trying to level off and let your body return to normal… - By choosing a low dose SERM as PCT is allows your body to gradually do this…

The combination of Chlomid and Nolvadex is deemed to be stronger than necessary and again causing too much stimulus rather than a gradual transition to normal levels…

I have always used HCG on cycle and used 50/50/25/25 chlomid and 40/40/20/20 in the past but will be using the newer theory when I cycle off next… It makes sense.

I know that Nolva is by far the stronger of the two, but I have plenty of Clomid on hand too. What would be the best way to put it to use then?

Use Clomid for 8 weeks at a time at 50 or 25mg/d on one cycle and use Nolva at 20mg/day for 8+ weeks on another?

HCG is just a royal pain in the ass to prep, and then you have to store it in the fridge, then you have to get different needles (insulin), etc… To be honest, I guess I am a bit wary about preparing it properly, which adds to my discomfort with it.

Sounds good to me. I haven’t used Chlomid alone so I would have a quick search to see what dose is suggested… What you have said seems pretty reasonable.

EASY HCG METHOD:

Mix 2ml Bac water with 5000iu HCG - Drawn 20 pins to 0.1 on a slin pin - This gives you 20 pins at 250iu (10weeks worth of 250iu 2 x per week)

To calculate other amounts in the future use my method of:

  1. Divide your HCG vial amount by the desired HCG amount per pin you need.
    Example - 5000/250 = 20

  2. That number is the amount of pins you can get from your original HCG vial containing the desired HCG per pin amount.
    Example - 20 pins containing 250iu

  3. Then divide your bac water volume by the number of pins you can fill with the desired HCG amount per pin.
    Example - 2ml/20 = 0.1

So, you will end up with 20 pins with 250iu in when each is drawn to 0.1.

Hope that helps.

Thanks man, that makes it pretty idiot proof.

1 Like

I’m using a low dose of NPP alongside a low dose of test and mast and haven’t had to use caber yet although I do have it laying around incase. Haven’t had to use an AI yet either and I’m about 4 weeks in. I would have it on hand for when you start to see/feel the sides.

AndyJones1992 can you help me? So you think I need caber? I have tender nipples and from a old cycle of Deca and test a few years back… I started tren cycle and taking P5P … Iv only token p5 a few days ago just started on the p5

I would probably take P5P for npp and up your dose…

Hey man, those posts are almost 5 years old, and AndyJones1992 hasn’t been on the forum in over 4 years. Have you done bloodwork to check for high prolactin? Is the P5P helping any?

1 Like

Damm new to this form and I just noticed that the form was years ago… Shame… But yes I believe the p5p is helping … I feel less of a tenderness u der my nipples…I’ve been dealing with this for years the pain never has gone away. I’ve never gotten my blood levels checked for prolactin… I was just uneducated I’m still on educated lol But I know a little bit more now. Currently on cycle with test C, tren e and proviron with taking P5P at 200 mg… Don’t know if I still need to take my AI? Since the proviron has some aromatizing inhibitor in it? And if I do need a.i how much adex do I need ? I’m kinda shooting.im the dark taking adex 0.5 eod … This has brought down the tenderness by far. But it’s still there slightly… But if the tenderness goes away , I might just do every 3 days with 0.5 of adex?

What dose of test are you on?

500mg of test C
250mg of tren E
50mg Ed of proviron
200mg ed of P5P

This is going to sound more blunt than I intend it to, but the only person who can tell you whether you need an AI is you. Are you experiencing symptoms of high E2 besides the preexisting nipple soreness? Low libido, ED, irritability, etc.? If not, then don’t take an AI. If so, start low and assess whether it’s helping/enough. (0.5 EOD is high for some guys and not for others; just be careful not to crash your E2.) From what I’ve read though, with that test dosage and tren dosage, most guys will need to somehow manage high E2 and prolactin.

I’ve recently read that a low(er) test dose with a high(er) tren dose really helps with this issue, which is food for thought for a future cycle.

I have had the soreness there for a few years due to old cycle of deca… I feel like I do have low libido but not erectile dysfunction … Irritability absolutely but I can manage that…I have been taking an AI. (Adex) at 0.5 mg every other day. I’m going to try to draw it out for every 3 days so I dont crash my estrogen… Or do you think ? Or would be better to take 0.25 every other day? I have noticed that the soreness when I’m taking both my P5P and ADex has definitely decreased the tenderness under my nipples… sorry I didn’t mention that before… I’m just concerned on if I’m taking.too much adex since I’m running proviron at 50mgs ED… It’s pretty nice for a.change not to be horny all the time lol but I do not want to have any erectile dysfunction…

Finding the sweet spot for the balance of hormones involves a bit of thoughtful trial and error.

0.25 EOD is 0.875 mg/wk, whereas 0.5 E3D is 1.17 mg/wk.

If you’re seeing benefits from the AI, my suggestion would be the lower, more frequent dose. After a week or 2, if it’s not enough then increase slightly. If you start noticing achy, dry joints and/or ED, immediately stop taking the AI until these symptoms improve and then resume with a lower dose.

But again, I’ve never done any steroids; I’ve simply read A LOT about them. Hopefully someone with more experience can chime in if I’m giving you bad advice.

1 Like

Thank you I will research more as well

1 Like