T Nation

Low Dose T Replacement for Women

Hi
i have some chronic health issues and yet working out has been a part of my life for many years. years ago i went on t injections and found it improved my quality of life. i was able to work out, get stronger and have a life… since then i stopped and got diagnoised with chronic fatigue… it seemed like after i stopped t my life came to a halt.

in the meantime i have been working to get thryoid and adrenals optimzed and that is a struggle too… i need to be able to work out, was taking a compounded gel and that didnt do much… so i have decided to switch back to low dose injections-

i am not sure how this is going to set with my body… i went from taking about 15mg of day of compounded gel to 20mg 1x a week of enthanate testo… just started this yesterday… and today i feel drained. not sure what is going on with my body–

i have been to several medical dr’s and they haven’t done anything to help me really… i do have an endo that is trying… i know this may be a bit complex for this forum…sorry if it is too complicated… i guess i amjust hoping to get some help with the correct about of T and how to best support my adrenals and thyroid- i am also taking 22.5 mg of cortef and 2.5grains of nature-thyroid as well as added 15mcg of cytomel…and i still feel like a zombie…

more than anythign i want to be able to use my body and get back to the gym… i have been making myself walk almost a mile a day and use some light weights at home…but even with just walking it feels like my muscles are not recovery… any ideas or hope?
thank you
cb

That is a whole bunch of issues.

Thyroid:

If your meds are right, your waking body temperature should be 97.7 or higher and you will get to 98.6 mid afternoon. If not, your have a functional hypothyroid state.

If rT3 is elevated, THS, fT3, fT4 could appear perfect, but rT3 would block T3 receptors and you would still have hypo symptoms, with possible low temperatures.

If you do not use iodized salt or have iodine in your vitamins, the root of the problem could be iodine deficiency, and you fix that with iodine, not drugs.

Adrenals:

Cortisol is made from progesterone. So you do not want low progesterone. You can get 2% OTC progesterone cream. Get KAL brand, google “KAL progesterone”. Available in some health food shops as well. DHEA and progesterone levels start to drop in the early 30’s.

Google Wilson’s book on “adrenal fatigue and read”. Get from Amazon. See how much of the book is talking about you.

Hormones:

You need to restore balance: estradiol, testosterone, progesterone and DHEA.

Please read the advice for new guys, you might find some useful ideas there. Come back with more info and lab results+ranges.

Testosterone is useful for self confidence and libido. Testosterone and/or DHEA can cause any facial hair to become more of an issue. So you do not want to take too much. And every woman is different, so one need to “read” their bodies. If you are taller and have smaller breasts, you are a lower estrogen type. Women who have high E levels will typically be shorter and have fuller breasts. And hormone replacement should be guided by things like that.

thanks for the reply… somehow i didn’t get an email notice… i have tried progestrone in the past and get horrible bloating… in just a couple days even… i do seem to have “estrogen dominance” but can’t tolerate progesterone… also i do have wilson’s book… it is helpful… i need to set this up so i get notices when i get messages… thanks again for the reply!

email notice: at the top of the thread, click on subscribe

thanks… here are some labs.
Free T4 .8 ( .8- 1.8)
Free T3 3.5 (2.3-4.2) pg/ml
REVERSE T3 15 (11 -32) ng/dl
TOTAL T3 137 ( 76- 181) ng/dl
TSH 0.04 low ( .40-4.50)
Pregnelone <5 LOW
DHEA 46 (25-220)
ACTH 14 (6 -50)
CORTISOL 15.5 (4-22)
SODIUM 140 (135- 146)
POTASSIUM 4.3 (3.5- 5.3)
TESTO TOTAL 211 ( 2-45)
TESTO FREE 29.2 ( .2- 5.0)
TESTO BIO 62.6 ( .5- 8.5)
SHBG 28 (17-124)

this is on 2 grains of naturethroid and 10mcg of cytomel. doesnt seem i am getting any absorption on the Naturethroid. since this i have decreased cytomel and trying to increase ndt… also taking Preg and DHEA as without them my numbers are really low… this was on IM injections of T i am lowering it and going to sub Q… or maybe sub- lingual drops. any thoughts? I tried a sub q shot yesterday…and it felt like it hit pretty fast… i got really oily in just a few hours. been having anxity the past few days not sure if it is the high T dose or trying to increase the NDT… ? time will tell…! i apprecaite the support!
how does the subQ work ? is it faster getting into the system? it seemed like it was…and it felt stronger although the dose was smaller.
thank you!
cb

How are your body temperatures???

With TSH–>0, your dose has exceeded what your hypothalamus would be calling for.

FT4 is low. Globulin bound T4 will not convert to T3 so your peripheral T4–>T3 is limited by that. Perhaps lab work for levels of thyroid binding globulin in the right hands might be useful. So while serum fT3 is good, there is a possibility that peripheral conversion and local utilization of T3 could be an issue when fT4 is low.

I do not know if cytomel is short acting and the labs may showing a lab timing effect.

How many mg’s of T per week? Your needs might be around 10mg test ester per week. You should avoid large amounts. Inject more than once a week. Too much T will shut down your HPOA and then you loose your production of ovarian hormones.

SC injections actually have a smoother delivery than IM. Smaller peaks and longer duration. Can’t explain your observation.

thanks KSMan
so are you saying that i should try the sub Q but 2x a week ? that is what i was thinking as usuallly by day 5 i am feel like i am running off balance. with these labs was was taking 20mg a week… too much! although i messed up one shot and only got 10.

My basal body temps… i have jst started tracking… 97.8, 96.3,98.3,97.7 i have cut out the cytomel and trying to increase the NDT by 1/4 grain to get the T4 up… i tried 1/2 grain increase and got alot of anxiety. could have been other things too…

i will look to see if i have this test from the past" thyroid binding globulin" i see the endo on thrusday and i can have her add it on for the next set of labs… whether they know what to do with it who knows… i am also going to let her know i am taking the T sub Q … can’t hurt to educate her!

do you know if it would benefit to switch to bio identical testo? and or the sub lingual drops? also trying to figure out the conversion factor… if i take say 7mg a week of sub q… would that transfer 1mg a day of subling or cream? i have tried compounded gel in the past and it just seemed to put more hair on my body… where as with the injections i noticed more strength and muscle gain- and energy… does this make sense?

thanks for helping with all this stuff! looks like i have more work to do in the thyroid arena… I really appreciate your input… much of the medical system seems very uneducated around thyroid issues…
thanks = hope ya are having a good weekend!

trying to bump my thread

thanks KSMan
so are you saying that i should try the sub Q but 2x a week ? that is what i was thinking as usuallly by day 5 i am feel like i am running off balance. with these labs was was taking 20mg a week… too much! although i messed up one shot and only got 10.

My basal body temps… i have jst started tracking… 97.8, 96.3,98.3,97.7 i have cut out the cytomel and trying to increase the NDT by 1/4 grain to get the T4 up… i tried 1/2 grain increase and got alot of anxiety. could have been other things too…

i will look to see if i have this test from the past" thyroid binding globulin" i see the endo on thrusday and i can have her add it on for the next set of labs… whether they know what to do with it who knows… i am also going to let her know i am taking the T sub Q … can’t hurt to educate her!

do you know if it would benefit to switch to bio identical testo? and or the sub lingual drops? also trying to figure out the conversion factor… if i take say 7mg a week of sub q… would that transfer 1mg a day of subling or cream? i have tried compounded gel in the past and it just seemed to put more hair on my body… where as with the injections i noticed more strength and muscle gain- and energy… does this make sense?

thanks for helping with all this stuff! looks like i have more work to do in the thyroid arena… I really appreciate your input… much of the medical system seems very uneducated around thyroid issues…
thanks = hope ya are having a good weekend!

When the ester group is removed from the testosterone ester, you get basic bio-identical testosterone.

No need to experiment with different delivery systems. Injected is 10-0% delivery and lest cost.

Yes, sub Q [SC] twice a week. Some guys inject EOD.

thanks KSman… ! I will work on doing 2x a week…my little low dose sub Q. any ideas about water retention?
thank you!

Water retention is probably increased E2 and/or not balanced by progesterone.

thanks KSman… i dont know if i am doing my injections right… i was feeling effects but they seem to have tapered off… am female and taking low dose… doing 2x a week. trying to find a 'good dosing" range for me. am thinking 8mg 2x a week although people say that is really high for female.

thanks
c

PS- i can’t tolerate progestrone…it makes me swell up like crazy…have tried two different types of PG cream :frowning:

There can be fast acting transient effects that are not sustained. And if you are repressing your HPOA, then the T will lower your LH and FSH. Tricky business.

do you mean transient effects with the progesterone? i had lots of swelling with the PG even before taking any T… i am amazed at how much the T helps me with the “cfids” at this point trying to get a decent dose and avoid the polycythemia i have had issues with in the past. it has also decreased my HDL quite a bit… but ldl is good… the fact that i was able to go to 40mins at the gym yesterday and not exhausted afterword, last nite or today- is amazing to me!

thanks