Defy is not just a TRT clinic they are an anti-aging clinic. They offer so much more than just T cyp/HCG/anastrosole. If you are a Defy patient and only talking about your T level and sex you are missing out on so much more. Nutrition was the first thing we talked about on my first consult. When they saw how fucked up my blood works was. It doesn’t cost anymore it is a major part of their plan.
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Sorry, but that’s just not true about arguments on their own merit. For example, Alex Jones is not a credible person to argue with because he’s flat out delusional. It’s not even worth listening to him because he’s not acting in good faith and his underlying framework of viewing the world is not reasonable/realistic.
Anyhow, I don’t know who unreal is in any actual sense. While he seems like a genuinely well meaning person who’s been a frequent poster here, I don’t know what that has to do with trusting someone’s comments. I’ve been on this forum since March 2006 (yes, >13 years) and have seen LOTS of supposed “experts” come and go. Those folks have dispensed all sorts of advice that has turned out to be anything from really good to absolute BS that they’ve just made up or that was totally harmful. While I respect reading and understanding research, at my age (38) and with as long as I’ve been both in the training scene and interested in pharmaceuticals I’ve learned that research often doesn’t translate to real-world experience. I’ve also built some healthy skepticism about who presents themselves as experts on forums. I think that’s entirely reasonable. I’ve also thanked unreal for the info he provided about HED equivalents and have repeatedly indicating I think he’s operating in good faith and with good will, so this isn’t a criticism. What is is is some justified questioning of what basis someone has for the recommendations they’re making, especially when they’re delivered as emphatically as unreal does.
That’s the crux of it. It’s a hard thing to pass up when a doc offers a compound I’ve been curious about for decades and wants to monitor me carefully to see if it helps/hurts/etc. The fact that the prescriber himself is using nandrolone at low doses and experiencing positive effects is very interesting as well. Combined with the growing volume of posts on multiple forums about positive quality of life changes from modest doses of nandrolone, I couldn’t really pass up the opportunity.
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To each his own I guess. I would rather carefully analyze an argument based on it’s content, rather than based on who said it.
When it comes to debates and such, I would not even waste my time with someone like Alex Jones, but that is a different context than we are discussing here.
I would rather say, unreal, how do you know that what you are saying is true?, vs what credentials do you have?
You don’t have to have a degree in medicine to understand these concepts. I have several patents on medical devices, and have no degree in medicine.
You’re notion as to my presence and who you think I am is awfully skewed. I have NEVER purported/claimed to be an expert, I rarely dispense advice relating to pharmaceuticals aside from the realms of harm minimisation tactics… I’m no expert
Keep us updated, anecdotes within this field of medicine are regarded highly in terms of significance due to a lack of data existing in relation to protocols/polypharmacy.
I’m curious as to whether you feel good/excellent/better than test alone. Furthermore, if you suffer from joint/muscle/connective tissue ailments, tell me if you perceive a therapeutic effect to be present within regard to pain reduction/management.
Will do on all fronts. I’m well accustomed to what plain testosterone feels like at a range of doses and resulting blood levels, with accompanying E2 issues though not the typical ones (I never get nipple issues but do struggle with constipation and water retention) many guys see.
I have plenty of orthopedic issues that the nandrolone could help in, everything from back issues to an arthroscopically repaired shoulder labrum and a whole host of other post-injury aches and pains that I deal with.
I’m getting a cortisone shot when I get back to Aus, subacromial bursitis that hasn’t improved (probably overuse injury), been bad for 8 months or so now, can’t bench, can’t press… only chest exercise I CAN do is weighted dips/dips/ring dips. For shoulders lateral raises (though even this irritates), front raises, rear felt flies, face pulls and interestingly upright rows don’t irritate me (very hypermobile)
Ah man, sorry to hear that. I can’t do dips anymore (to my great sadness) because my repaired shoulder is tighter than my “original” one and the difference in ROM means I do much better on exercises with independent sides. No more benching with a straight bar, for example, but DB presses of all kinds are fine. Sucks. I used to have hypermobile shoulders until I subluxated my right one three times and finally ripped a chunk of the labrum off. Be careful with yourself, you’re young and shoulder surgery sucks. I had cancer a few years back and had a huge chunk taken out of my upper body that I have few problems from today, but the shoulder surgery still messes me up 3+ years later.
Sorry to hear about the cancer (but glad to hear you’ve recovered)
I’ve sublaxed the shoulder a few times, worst offender was when it was injured for a good year (poppped it out as a party trick, one time it went out too far, the shoulder has never been the same) I’ve wondered as to whether I may have a partial labrum tear, as an ultrasound may be unable to detect such an injury, and this was 3 years ago, yet the shoulder always feels as if it’s barely being held in place
Both shoulders are prone to irritation during repeated overhead movement in an unstable position (so freestyle swimming would be an example)
I’ve done several 10 week cycles of 100 ml/week nandrolone combined with 200/wk Cypionate.
Takes a few weeks to build up in the system
But I do feel like my joints feel better toward the end of the 10 weeks. In terms of strength hard to say if there is much affect, but I continue to gain so it can’t hurt.
Aside from that the other sides are an abnormally high sex drive (sometimes 3-4x a day) and Slightly elevated blood pressure. Luckily no signs of Deca dick, quite the opposite actually.
One other thing I forgot to mention…several people have mentioned mental side effects, specifically with jealousy related to their wives/girlfriends…I did notice this as well but was able to cope effectively by banging her constantly.
Yeah I hate that someone like unreal24278 who’s ability to understand & retain data far exceeds anyone I’ve ever seen would come here and dispense that data on a forum where a great many users have never researched the question they are about to ask. I would much rather get info from some guy that did steroids for a long time but doesn’t really know how they work except “I gained X amount of muscle” and then throw in a hard to say word that a Googled search associated with said steroid so they sound knowledgeable. The dude reads a million people’s experiences and couples it with every medical study out there and dispenses it as easy (albeit hard for some) to understand info so people have a little extra to go on. For the record I’ve seen him post about 20 times that he’s not an expert but in reality if he’s not he’s pretty damn close and since he’s 19 I can’t imagine what he’ll be at 25. He’s got his quirks but I for one don’t ever skip his posts regardless of how much of it is a 2000 word rant about his 18 year old friend using MDMA while smoking cigarettes.
Our two posts have one thing in common though. No one cares about our opinions.
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I’ll stop the rants/ off topic conversations, they are irrelevant
Not true sir… I care LOL
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FWIW I’ve had experience with being prescribed Nandrolone as well as know several people who have tried therapeutic doses. This was early on in my TRT journey before I knew how to properly advocate for myself. It has NO place as an HRT drug. Think about it. Look at what is truly prescribed for. Do you have HIV or another wasting disease? If not, don’t fool yourself. You would be using it for recreational purposes regardless of whether or not a doctor prescribed it. I was a fan of Defy and recommended them for some time until their recent and very rampant over prescribing of Nandrolone. I feel its irresponsible. I had nasty mental and physical side effects although I feel my doctor prescribed improper doses and over use of AI at the time.
Further, in my experience only, I’ve seen many of these practices employee docs and PAs that know only the very basics of HRT. THEY have NO personal experience with use and over prescribe meds for the purpose of profit. If you want a prime example of somebody who personally prescribed to countless people take Dr Crisler. Dr Crisler’s protocols changed drastically over the years especially with his prescribing of AIs all the way up to his death. So if you are solely seeking advice from someone who prescribes to a lot of people even their opinion is going to change as we all learn more over time about HRT.
So, no way to clearly attribute these to nandrolone due to potentially tanking your E2. Got it. 
Incorrect. Not sure why you assume that. I put myself in Defy’s hands and asked for their recommendation after I failed on a trial of propionate they prescribed for me. Lab work looked shitty and I felt terrible. I fired my first Defy practitioner as I didn’t feel he was giving me any recommendations, only RXing what I asked for. I didn’t like that. I complained to patient services and they referred me to a different provider there. I told him what my TRT history was, symptoms, and focused on a few clear goals to optimize for (maintain libido, decrease water retention, avoid AI, improve sleep quality). After looking at my labs, THEY recommend nandrolone. I didn’t ask for it and was quite surprised they offered it. I wasn’t aware they were RXing nandrolone. So let’s be clear-- your assertion that I’d be using nandrolone on my own is flat wrong. If I’d wanted to use it, I would. The only other compound I’ve ever added to my TRT was Masteron and I felt crappy and it messed up my lipids. I tried it for 2 months and went off.
The PA I’m working with at Defy is himself on nandrolone and testosterone.
Actually I DO think this was partially related to tanking my E2. Want to know why my E2 was tanked? Improper prescribing by the Doc.
Why would I assume that…? Literally look at what its created for. Not HRT. Yes it aromatizes at a fifth the rate of testosterone so I know what you are trying to do, but its simply NOT an HRT drug. Neither is Anavar which is rearing its ugly head at “HRT clinics”. No sir these are simply people getting legal ‘roids’. I have no problem with it but call a spade a spade my friend.
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It wouldn’t be the same without them. You can never have too much cowbell.
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