T Nation

Low-Dose Nandrolone with Test for TRT?

The TRT clinic I started using a few months ago is recommending I add nandrolone to my protocol. I had a failed trial of using test prop instead of cypionate, so they want me to give this a shot. I don’t do well with AIs and my free T to E2 ratio is off (estrogen dominant in that ratio), so this is their recommendation. Obviously this is a bit outside the normal scope of the T Replacement forum so I figured I’d ask over here. I’ve looked at the rat/rabbit studies but they were using mega-doses, so I’m wondering what I may expect in terms of benefits/side effects at ~100mg/week in divided doses.

What do you guys think about running deca along with test E long-term?

Rat/rabbit studies aren’t using megadoses… look up HED conversions. Many studies showcasing nandrolone induced neurological dysregulation and/or cardiac damage, neohrotoxicity etc have HEDs of around 150-250mg weekly

Then again rodent studies indicate cardiac impairment when T doses HED of 100mg weekly or even lower are given

I appreciate that, helpful to know. Even with the HED conversion, for example this rabbit study on vasoconstriction was at a HED of 720mg of testosterone per week (rabbit dose divided by 3.1 according to FDA HED and then scaled for a 90kg person) and 1440mg/week of nandrolone. While in the world of AAS I realize that test dose isn’t mega, it’s still 5-6x higher than a TRT dose, and the nandrolone dose is 10x higher than the dose I’m considering.

So all that said, what are your (and anyone else’s) thoughts on nandrolone as an adjunct to testosterone?

720 is 3-7x regular trt doses

Nandrolone has the potential to induce profound neurological dysregulation. This will be up to the individuals genetic susceptibility. Some, like physiologik can handle it fine… others make Deca dick, I’m suicidal threads after use.

Nandrolone appears to be more potent in terms of ability to induce endothelial dysfunction, extensive cardiotoxicity comparative to test mg/mg… however 100mg is a very low dose

750mg may not be much in the AAS world… but I use gear… and to me… 750 mg is a fuck ton

What are your actual levels? Is this pre-trt?

No, I’ve been on TRT for many years. My recent levels are a bit all over the place in terms of actual values because I failed on a trial of test propionate (really, really did not feel good and bloodwork backed that up). But what I can say is that my free T and E2 levels have tended to be at around a 1:2 ratio and the person at Defy I’m working with said he likes to see guys at around 1:1 for those. Since I don’t do well with AIs we are trying the nandrolone along with the test E to see if we can bring the E2 down while ameliorating symptoms of low T with a different compound that doesn’t aromatize the same way as testosterone does.

Here’s my bloodwork. It’s almost exactly the same ratio. Most guys on TRT will have the same ratio as well (check out the TRT section if you don’t believe me). Your doc sounds like he doesn’t know what he’s talking about which will likely end with you not feeling great for a long time or being prescribed something unneeded like deca. It took me about 8 months to find the dose that put me where I’m feeling great. The key to TRT is patience and small steps. I wish you the best of luck but I think you’re going not going on the right direction. Deca for life is not really an option.

Thanks for posting. I appreciate it. That’s an interesting data point. Do you have an E2 related symptoms? I’m working with Defy Medical and they’re apparently prescribing nandrolone more, so I do think they have some idea what they’re talking about. But I hear what you’re saying. I will check out the TRT section and will take your caution to heart. I’m going to give the nandrolone a try and see how I feel. I’ve been on TRT for 7+ years and never really felt optimal.

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You’ll see 10 other people in the TRT section with the same exact post as you being prescribed deca for TRT by Defy. I think Defy is fine and like a lot of what Dr Saya has to say but you’ll see in the other section that they don’t always get it right and some of the docs are better than others. Like all TRT clinics they are a business first. It’s your body and your life so in the end it’s your responsibility to make sure you’re doing it right. Even if Deca fixes everything it’s not something you can rely on taking forever and with the neurological effects it has I would be careful regardless of how low the dose is. Maybe the multiple threads with folks having years long issues has me overly biased but I just don’t think it’s a long term fix if it fixes anything at all.

No E2 issues. After being on a set dose for a period of time the body finds the optimal ratio of hormones.

My guess is that you would feel better with proviron.

I know people who use test and EQ year round. I think that is preferable, but you can’t get a script for EQ.

I loved EQ. Made me feel like a superhero

In what way if you can describe “superhero” and what dose @dextermorgan ? I’ve never tried EQ either

I’ve never tried it, but it is supposed to be very close to test structurally. It’s advantages are that it doesn’t aromatize very much, some say between a quarter to a half of test. There is also some evidence though bloodwork that it lowers estrogen. I think the theory is that one of its metabolites acts as a mild AI. No evidence to back that up. @iron_yuppie knows a bit about it.

It is kinda one of those things that some love and some don’t think does much. The side effect profile is much better than nandralone, IMO.

It is popular as a base in bulk cycles (with test). Nandralone is also very popular for the same use. Most common sides are increased RBC (I think epo is also one of its metabolites). Some also report anxiety on it, but that is individual.

Just my 2 cents on it. There is a bunch of bro science in my statements, so take it with a grain of salt.

Granted I took it a while ago having no knowledge at all about anything steroid related. I also took it by itself with no other compounds. It gave me a ton of energy and I was super hungry all the time (craved good food no sweets). I was able to have sex like a champ and my libido was through the roof. I went from never running a day in my life to having spontaneous urges to run miles. It had a major antidepressant effect and I was always in a great mood ready to takeover the world. I gained 25 lbs and lost fat. I didn’t do (or know anything about PCT) and when I came off I felt horrible, stopped working out and felt depressed for a couple of months and lost a lot of the gains. Was on it for 16 weeks around 400mg/week.

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Holy cow! I think one of the big things is the appetite. I’m planning EQ for a future blast. Test at 200, EQ at 300-400.

I’ve used Masteron and didn’t love it. Fucked with my lipids and spiked my IGF-1 above range at low doses. My guess is Proviron would be similar/inferior?

I’m willing to experiment with compounds I can’t get an Rx for. But the issue is I don’t know what to use to resolve the relatively poor subjective experiences I have. I’ve struggled with water retention and digestive issues on 150-175mg/week of cypionate. Libido and exercise tolerance were great but other issues were suboptimal. Arimidex seems to trigger migraines and constipation.

Clinics be prescribing all kinds of gains these days.


Thanks man

I used deca during trt and enjoyed one of the benefits of it. I also liked the idea of experimenting (under proper supervision) and seeing what would happen. If it’s any indication of how much I liked it and how good the benefits were I’ll tell you that I never plan on using nandrolone again.

What is your actual free t, e2, TT, SHBG?

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I’ll keep this question short as to not derail this thread but what do you think about using 50mg/day for 6 weeks Anavar with TRT doses vs with 500mg Test? Obviously the higher test would likely mean more size but would there be a reason that using it with lower test would be preferable (Discounting the different goals argument)? I ask since I know you used it with TRT for a while and seemed to like it a lot so just curious if you think it’s more effective with lower Test or higher Test for whatever reason.