T Nation

Low Carb Diet...Not Losing Weight

Thanks for the suggestions. Will try to adapt some of those to my diet.

Only problem is, stuff like the steak and all isn’t gonna happen for me. I’m 17 with school 5 days a week. Money/ time wise some of this doesnt rly fit in. I had an extra meal in the end but had to combine it with another to fit it all in.

btw, does anyone know, is there a limit on how much protein ur body can take in at one sitting?

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
laroyal wrote:

1.) SHakes are insulinagenic (they create an insulin response wether they have carbs or not…EAT your protein).

REALLY?! I mean, I know that all food has some effect on the body’s processes, and eating food will have more of a thermic effect, but this is the first time I’ve heard this. Can you explain a little more?

S

[/quote]

This may explain my problems with whey. It makes me fat and I feel like crap when I take it.

[quote]laroyal wrote:

1.) SHakes are insulinagenic (they create an insulin response wether they have carbs or not…EAT your protein).
[/quote]

I knew I was leaner when I was completely off whey for a few months. And when I started it again I gained body fat. i knew it had to be the whey just not why until now. Nice.

I have a suggestion for food protein source at school. Buy some beef and cook it into jerky. I don’t have details on the exact process, but I know its possible in a conventional oven.

Hey, could anyone elaborate on how Carnitine helps your body utilize fish oil? I had never heard of this before but it sounds interesting as I take a lot of fish oil.

While Ialways appreciate when someone sheds light on something I didn’t know, I’m still a little baffled by how a shake (which is really just evaporated milk) has a different response in the body than solid food.

Is it the lack of fiber, and therefore quick digestion rate, that creates an insulin response, or something else? Seriously, I like to think I know a good amount about training and nutrition, but this is really out of left field to me.

S

[quote]mthomps wrote:
laroyal wrote:

1.) SHakes are insulinagenic (they create an insulin response wether they have carbs or not…EAT your protein).

I knew I was leaner when I was completely off whey for a few months. And when I started it again I gained body fat. i knew it had to be the whey just not why until now. Nice.

I have a suggestion for food protein source at school. Buy some beef and cook it into jerky. I don’t have details on the exact process, but I know its possible in a conventional oven.

[/quote]

I doubt a whey shake with enough fats and fiber will be significantly insulinogenic

But if you consume for example ~50% of you protein from whey, then i think your body will not burn that much calories digesting whey compared with real food and when you stop doing that you will notice.

I the other hand i think a shake with casein is fine.

[quote]OlympicLifter wrote:
Hey, could anyone elaborate on how Carnitine helps your body utilize fish oil? I had never heard of this before but it sounds interesting as I take a lot of fish oil.[/quote]
You can think of carnitine as the “airport shuttle” for fatty acids. Carnitine is a natural substance important to the transport of fat into the mitochondria where it is “burnt” for energy. Carnitine is also important in removing the biochemical “ashes” remaining after the fat is metabolized to energy. It does this by binding to the biochemical ashes and carries them out of the mitochondria and then out of the body as carnitine bound “ashes” (acylcarnitine derivatives) dissolved in the urine. Carnitine is eaten in the diet in red meats and dairy products, including breast milk, and is also made in the body from breaking down muscle protein and converting it to carnitine.

There is scientific evidence that increased levels of carnitine in tissues leads to increased fat burning. Fat transported to the mitochondria where it is burned not only gives you energy but encourages weight loss. Carnitine also helps increase metabolic rate while also maintaining the amount of muscle tissue. This can aid in long term weight loss because muscles burn calories even when you are sitting still. The more muscle you have the more calories you burn throughout the day. Eliminating cravings can be one of the hardest parts of changing your diet. Carnitine is one of the most important nutrients for keeping blood sugar constant and eliminating these cravings.

Studies have shown that when heart patients are given L-carnitine before an exercise stress test, the heart functions more efficiently – it pumps more blood, with fewer beats, and with less tendency toward oxygen deprivation

For a great read on the many benefits of Carnitine check out Robert Crayhon’s Carnitine Miracle Ebook (a free download from his site) He is a brilliant MD and I highly recommend any of his books!

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
While Ialways appreciate when someone sheds light on something I didn’t know, I’m still a little baffled by how a shake (which is really just evaporated milk) has a different response in the body than solid food.

Is it the lack of fiber, and therefore quick digestion rate, that creates an insulin response, or something else? Seriously, I like to think I know a good amount about training and nutrition, but this is really out of left field to me.

S
[/quote]

The insuligenic response from a whey shake has to do with a couple of factors:

The skewed vitamin and mineral profile will alter insulin sensitivity. There is no fiber or fat present for slowing digestion and there is not adequate digestive thermogenisis occuring. Basically you can think of it like if you drink fruit juice vs. eat a piece of fruit. The whole food contains enzymes, and nutrients which can be destroyed or altered in the manufacturing process (one of the reasopns extra vitamins and minerals are added in) and these effect the digestion rate. Also, something to consider is that with meat you have a pretty good idea what you are getting. With the cost of food rising to keep profits up many manufacturers are using cheaper cattle as a source for their protein powders. You may be getting product from a stressed out (high cortisol), corn fed, anti-biotic ladden bovine you would not think about putting on your plate.

Once milk is heated (to approximately 163°), nutritional breakdown and chemical modification begin. Both of these denature the milk, and by extension, the whey proteins inside.

Pasteurizing destroys enzymes, weakens vitamins, denatures or damages fragile milk proteins, destroys vitamin B12 and B6, kills beneficial bacteria and promotes pathogens. I firmly believe that pasteurized milk is a big cause of food allergies in this country, and is associated with a broad range of other symptoms.

What’s more, once the protein is denatured, the vital protein-bound fats are cut loose.

Even today’s most expensive whey products – isolates, ion exchange, concentrates and hydrolyzed form – are denatured by-products of cheese manufacturing that fall short of preserving the biological activity of the whey proteins. These damaged proteins leave just a slim range of proteins to contribute to your health

If you do buy a protein powder I highly recommend sticking to a high quality brand like Poliquin, Biotest, Isopure from Nature’s Best is good, Metagenics. There are some other good ones out there but that is my current recommendations for clients!

[quote]laroyal wrote:
The Mighty Stu wrote:
While Ialways appreciate when someone sheds light on something I didn’t know, I’m still a little baffled by how a shake (which is really just evaporated milk) has a different response in the body than solid food.

Is it the lack of fiber, and therefore quick digestion rate, that creates an insulin response, or something else? Seriously, I like to think I know a good amount about training and nutrition, but this is really out of left field to me.

S

The insuligenic response from a whey shake has to do with a couple of factors:

The skewed vitamin and mineral profile will alter insulin sensitivity. There is no fiber or fat present for slowing digestion and there is not adequate digestive thermogenisis occuring.

Basically you can think of it like if you drink fruit juice vs. eat a piece of fruit. The whole food contains enzymes, and nutrients which can be destroyed or altered in the manufacturing process (one of the reasopns extra vitamins and minerals are added in) and these effect the digestion rate.

Also, something to consider is that with meat you have a pretty good idea what you are getting. With the cost of food rising to keep profits up many manufacturers are using cheaper cattle as a source for their protein powders.

You may be getting product from a stressed out (high cortisol), corn fed, anti-biotic ladden bovine you would not think about putting on your plate.

Once milk is heated (to approximately 163°), nutritional breakdown and chemical modification begin. Both of these denature the milk, and by extension, the whey proteins inside.

Pasteurizing destroys enzymes, weakens vitamins, denatures or damages fragile milk proteins, destroys vitamin B12 and B6, kills beneficial bacteria and promotes pathogens. I firmly believe that pasteurized milk is a big cause of food allergies in this country, and is associated with a broad range of other symptoms.

What’s more, once the protein is denatured, the vital protein-bound fats are cut loose.

Even today’s most expensive whey products – isolates, ion exchange, concentrates and hydrolyzed form – are denatured by-products of cheese manufacturing that fall short of preserving the biological activity of the whey proteins.

These damaged proteins leave just a slim range of proteins to contribute to your health

If you do buy a protein powder I highly recommend sticking to a high quality brand like Poliquin, Biotest, Isopure from Nature’s Best is good, Metagenics. There are some other good ones out there but that is my current recommendations for clients![/quote]

How is this different from cooking meat? The protein in beef and chicken is denatured when cooked, enzymes, vitamins, and minerals are no doubt destroyed as well. I realize that milk proteins are more fragile but more or less the same thing happens.

And when we consume protein, our body “denatures” it to say the least. I think there is a huge misconception behind what exactly denaturation is and if it’s really anything we need to be that concernded about.

Bill Roberts, if you’re out there, I would love for you to chime in.

(EDIT: After re-reading my post it’s sounds sort of ass-hat-ish to me. So if you read it that way my bad, not trying to pick a fight, this is actually a great discussion.)

ahh… so the fact that I only use Whey PWO (when I want the spike) is fine… that’s what I always thought, but man you had me wondering -lol.

Thanks for the clarity.

S

[quote]analog_kid wrote:
Bill Roberts, if you’re out there, I would love for you to chime in. [/quote]

Seconded. I need to know if I should restock my Grow!.

umm…to be honest, you guys are REALLY missing the point here. First of all, if you aren’t losing fat at a fast enough rate, you must first look at your CALORIES. I see you are eating about 2,600 per day.

That’s almost 12xBW, for an over-fat individual like yourself, you may need to take them lower, like 10xBW. Muscle loss won’t be much of a problem b/c you are getting plenty of protein and training heavy. You aren’t eating many carbs either so that leaves fat as the primary macro to reduce.

Try this, replace the coconut oil with non-fat cooking spray for your eggs, also reduce your snack from 1/2 cup almonds to 1/4 cup.

also, why in gods name are you taking a “shot” of 2 tbsp EVOO, you do not realize that fat, yes even so called “good fat”, still contains 9 calories per gram, and consuming too many calories causes weight gain right? (yes, i know it doesn’t spike insulin, but one can gain fat even with no rise in insulin)

also, 13g fish oil is overkill, that’s over 100 calories a day in fish oil, switch to a more concentrated brand (liquid oil, or Flameout) and use less, same amount of EPA/DHA, less calories.

There, see? Simple and easy, reduce your calories, increase your fat burning. I promise if you follow these steps, and reduce your calories by ~500 per day, fat loss will get moving again.

How do you monitor stomach acid levels? I have some pH paper that i use on the tongue, always slightly over 7.0.

If HCl levels are low, are there ways to increase it without taking HCl?
How bad is low HCl?

Side note: effects of grapfruit (sugars?) and ACV on cutting or in general?

also your fat cal are way off, I only calculated the amount of fat in 3 whole eggs, 1/2 tbsp coconut oil, 1/2 cup almonds, 3 tbsp olive oil, 2 tbsp natural PB, and 13g fish oil, and you are already at almost 130g, thats not even counting the tag along fats in your salad, protein shakes, and chicken/steak dinner.

all told you’re probably consuming closer to 150+g per day aka a fuckload.

lowering your fats = lowering your calories = lowering your BF%

glad i could help

i’ve noticed when i ate low carb (PWO and morning) and hi fat (50% total intake) i could eat a lot and not gain weight. (4000-4500 did not influence my weight with maintenance at 3000).

I would respond to that by saying you either (A) overestimated your calorie intake, (B) Underestimated your maintenance levels or, and most likely, a combination of both.

regardless of what some low carb guru or book author will tell yo, there is no “metabolic advantage” low carb / high fat, high carb / low fat, or isocaloric the same principle still applies: if energy intake > energy expenditure, over time the result = you gaining weight.

i’m not an expert on this, and don’t claim to be. i have read that fat digestion is slow and tough, so a lot of energy is required to digest it.

i fitday’ed it consistently for a few weeks, so calorie intake should be pretty accurate. maintenance level maybe off, idk. highly doubt my maintenance is 4k+ especially when i’m eating 3300-3500 and gaining some weight :stuck_out_tongue:

[quote]JMoUCF87 wrote:
also your fat cal are way off, I only calculated the amount of fat in 3 whole eggs, 1/2 tbsp coconut oil, 1/2 cup almonds, 3 tbsp olive oil, 2 tbsp natural PB, and 13g fish oil, and you are already at almost 130g, thats not even counting the tag along fats in your salad, protein shakes, and chicken/steak dinner. all told you’re probably consuming closer to 150+g per day aka a fuckload.

lowering your fats = lowering your calories = lowering your BF%

glad i could help[/quote]

where did u you get your info from? Just curious. I totalled mine up from exactly whats on the back of the container. But like you said. I will lower the fat cals.
I’m following the guidelines that Tibs wrote in the refined physique transformation article.

He says your protein cals should be equal to your fat. Plus it also says to take more fishoil then I am taking but I cant afford it.
Do you guys have any more ideas? Or tips on how I can get more protein in so I can replace one of the shakes?

I was pissed today, I stepped on the scale, before I weighed 224.3 and today I was 226.7
Whats going on?

I broke the diet yesterday since I was gone and the only place to get food was taco bell and I thought I’d eat something rather then nothing and count it as my cheat meal (first one in 2 weeks) and this happened. whats going on?

[quote]JMoUCF87 wrote:
reduce your calories by ~500 per day, fat loss will get moving again.[/quote]

This sounds like another piece of dogma that needs to be euthanized.

If a calorie is ‘not just a calorie,’ then it matters where those 500 calories comes from, does it not?

Also, 500 calories in relation to how many as the current caloric intake? I always thought 20-30% reduction in intake was a good enough shock to initiate fat loss, but a 500 calorie reduction does not always fall within this range.

Also, what do you all think of initiating ‘metabolism shock’ - my phrase, I guess - to begin gaining muscle or losing fat?

Say someone can’t get going with a particular weight gain/loss plan. Have you notice say, a 30% reduction in calories would be good to INITIATE fat loss, and that this can be scaled back to perhaps 15-20% once the fat starts coming off (after spending a certain amount of time at 30% to trick the body into burning fat) ?

Same with weight gain. I’m reading about some guys needing 5000 cals to start gaining. Fine, but doesn’t the body’s capacity to synthesize muscle slow down at some point?

It can’t be sustained indefinitely, so maybe that massive caloric intake - I realize 5000 may not be massive for some, but I’m talking about guys that, by traditional calculations would need 4000 cals to start growing - is what is needed to shift the person’s metabolism toward piling on mass?