Low Carb and Weightlifting

Bigger Stronger Leaner Powerlifting & Strength Sports
21

[quote]Paperclip wrote:

[quote]tork94 wrote:

Not as well as i had expected. Im still doing the “Poliquin-thing” but im throwing some tweeks in to try and personalize it more to my needs as an Oly lifter.

Over the last week, i have added in the L-carnitine, taken out my carb powder and have made my workouts about 30% faster (same amount of work, just faster paced). So far i feel really good and seem a bit leaner considering its been less then a week.

Ill try and keep you up-dated if you like.
[/quote]

Thanks but I don’t think it would be necessary because you’ve written quite a lot on the nutrition subforum, but I’d like to know how much your average daily calorie intake? [/quote]

i really dont know for sure since i dont count calories, if i start loosing to much weight, i eat more, if i start gaining to much weight i eat slightly less etc…

im probably somewhere between 3500 and 4000 kcals im assuming.

22

[quote]1llusion wrote:
It’s more than reasonable to walk around lean and be an olifter. There’s three of us who train together and we all stay around 5-6% year-round (granted, we’re all fairly new to oly, the most veteran is 2 years, im just shy of a year, and the newest is only a few months).[/quote]

Please don’t take offense, but I highly doubt you are 5-6% BF year round. That’s getting close to BB standards for competition. What are you measuring yourself with?? My guess is it’s closer to 7-10%, that would make much more sense. When you’re too low BF %, your strength is not going to be too high, unless you’re an extreme ectomorph with very high metabolism. Also, how old are you guys??

23

[quote]olylifter106 wrote:

[quote]1llusion wrote:
It’s more than reasonable to walk around lean and be an olifter. There’s three of us who train together and we all stay around 5-6% year-round (granted, we’re all fairly new to oly, the most veteran is 2 years, im just shy of a year, and the newest is only a few months).[/quote]

Please don’t take offense, but I highly doubt you are 5-6% BF year round. That’s getting close to BB standards for competition. What are you measuring yourself with?? My guess is it’s closer to 7-10%, that would make much more sense. When you’re too low BF %, your strength is not going to be too high, unless you’re an extreme ectomorph with very high metabolism. Also, how old are you guys??[/quote]

I understand how you may question what I said, but you need to realize that there is a large difference between being lean while dehydrated, and lean while hydrated. I can regularly see striations in numerous muscle groups, and do in fact have a metabolism that is quite high. I’m actually not measuring myself, as doing so with callipers is near impossible. Please do not guess my bodyfat without knowing anything about me, it makes you seem unintelligent.

I can guarantee that I could get anyone lean, but people don’t usually like it when I tell them that it is their own doing that is making them store excess body fat. I frequently avoid forum discussions like this because people take offence too easily, and misread the tone of the message.

24

[quote]1llusion wrote:
I’m actually not measuring myself, as doing so with callipers is near impossible. Please do not guess my bodyfat without knowing anything about me, it makes you seem unintelligent.
[/quote]

If you’re not measuring yourself, how do you know you’re 5-6% year round? If that’s an eyeball test, well, most people tend to underestimate how much fat they’re carrying (which is I’m assuming why the other guy figured you were closer to 7-10%).

While I agree with your notion that it’s “far from impossible” to stay lean while training o-lifting, I think for most people putting emphasis on staying that lean will become detrimental to their lifting progress, especially as you go higher in the weight classes. And as a last point, 5-6% (hydrated or not) is pretty goddamn lean, and you can’t expect to post that you sit around that year-round and not have somebody call you on it. And I personally think it might be beneficial to sit at a little bit of a higher BF% during training anyways.

25

[quote]TheJonty wrote:

[quote]1llusion wrote:
I’m actually not measuring myself, as doing so with callipers is near impossible. Please do not guess my bodyfat without knowing anything about me, it makes you seem unintelligent.
[/quote]

If you’re not measuring yourself, how do you know you’re 5-6% year round? If that’s an eyeball test, well, most people tend to underestimate how much fat they’re carrying (which is I’m assuming why the other guy figured you were closer to 7-10%).

While I agree with your notion that it’s “far from impossible” to stay lean while training o-lifting, I think for most people putting emphasis on staying that lean will become detrimental to their lifting progress, especially as you go higher in the weight classes. And as a last point, 5-6% (hydrated or not) is pretty goddamn lean, and you can’t expect to post that you sit around that year-round and not have somebody call you on it. And I personally think it might be beneficial to sit at a little bit of a higher BF% during training anyways.[/quote]

Guess I could have been more clear. I’m not doing the measuring with the callipers, another person is. I’ll work on my clarity in the future.

I’d agree with your last statement, that most people can’t do it. I can’t argue that. But, from what I’ve seen over the last few years as a trainer is that most people have the potential to be lean year-round, they simply make the choice not to. They make these small choices daily that hold them back, and at the end of the day it matters. Myself, I prefer to eat well, get to bed early, and train hard more than I enjoy things like cheap food and alcohol.

Personally, I have a hell of a time gaining any fat. For example, for two weeks I ate 10g of carbs/kg of bodyweight per day (so 700g/day), while getting 1.5g of protein/lb of bodyweight and got noticeably leaner, visually and verified through skinfolds.

I don’t intend to imply that people should be as lean as I am, but I honestly see no reason why any competing male athlete should be over 8% bodyfat. Even the 105+ guys would benefit from being leaner, granted it would take more effort to keep that kind of lean mass on you.

26

[quote]tork94 wrote:
hey guys, i have been trying a few different diets over the years in an attempt to lean out while staying in my weight class with very little success. Now i understand that most people wont get crazy lean just doing the oly lifts, but i have made almost no progress as far as fat loss/muscle gain although i have gotten stronger.

Im wondering what some of you guys eat, supplement with, carb powders, yes or no, carbs in the day, yes or no. etc…

let me know please, im kinda getting frustrated.[/quote]
You’re probably in the dreaded Twilight Zone. This is the place where you neither gain muscle or lose fat. It comes from eating at maintenence without realizing it. You need to track your calories for a week and establish this number. Now readjust for whatever goal you have in mind. Be more concerned with weekly than daily cals once you establish what your needs are.

27

[quote]1llusion wrote:

[quote]olylifter106 wrote:

[quote]1llusion wrote:
It’s more than reasonable to walk around lean and be an olifter. There’s three of us who train together and we all stay around 5-6% year-round (granted, we’re all fairly new to oly, the most veteran is 2 years, im just shy of a year, and the newest is only a few months).[/quote]

Please don’t take offense, but I highly doubt you are 5-6% BF year round. That’s getting close to BB standards for competition. What are you measuring yourself with?? My guess is it’s closer to 7-10%, that would make much more sense. When you’re too low BF %, your strength is not going to be too high, unless you’re an extreme ectomorph with very high metabolism. Also, how old are you guys??[/quote]

I understand how you may question what I said, but you need to realize that there is a large difference between being lean while dehydrated, and lean while hydrated. I can regularly see striations in numerous muscle groups, and do in fact have a metabolism that is quite high. I’m actually not measuring myself, as doing so with callipers is near impossible. Please do not guess my bodyfat without knowing anything about me, it makes you seem unintelligent.

I can guarantee that I could get anyone lean, but people don’t usually like it when I tell them that it is their own doing that is making them store excess body fat. I frequently avoid forum discussions like this because people take offence too easily, and misread the tone of the message.
[/quote]

I’m not unintelligent, I’ve just been around the block a few times. As the other guy said, based on what you posted, I merely questioned your statements. Personally, I don’t know anyone who can perform strength sports with that low of a BF. That is not to say that it can’t be done, I’ll be the first to admit that I don’t know.

28

I wonder if a barbell complexes at the end of a session 2-3 times a week would help? Has anyone tried this? I might, getting a little fat for my liking…

29

[quote]1llusion wrote:
Guess I could have been more clear. I’m not doing the measuring with the callipers, another person is. I’ll work on my clarity in the future.

I’d agree with your last statement, that most people can’t do it. I can’t argue that. But, from what I’ve seen over the last few years as a trainer is that most people have the potential to be lean year-round, they simply make the choice not to. They make these small choices daily that hold them back, and at the end of the day it matters. Myself, I prefer to eat well, get to bed early, and train hard more than I enjoy things like cheap food and alcohol.

Personally, I have a hell of a time gaining any fat. For example, for two weeks I ate 10g of carbs/kg of bodyweight per day (so 700g/day), while getting 1.5g of protein/lb of bodyweight and got noticeably leaner, visually and verified through skinfolds.

I don’t intend to imply that people should be as lean as I am, but I honestly see no reason why any competing male athlete should be over 8% bodyfat. Even the 105+ guys would benefit from being leaner, granted it would take more effort to keep that kind of lean mass on you.[/quote]

I’d be interested to hear say your top 5 “daily choices” that you see people making that hold you back. As a strength athlete, and relatively lean one (8-9%) I find I can’t go much leaner than that without making big sacrifices in strength. If you’ve found a way to avoid that I’d definitely be interested in hearing, or even trying it out.

30

It’s all about diet as to how lean you are in weightlifting.

Koing

31

[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:

[quote]1llusion wrote:
Guess I could have been more clear. I’m not doing the measuring with the callipers, another person is. I’ll work on my clarity in the future.

I’d agree with your last statement, that most people can’t do it. I can’t argue that. But, from what I’ve seen over the last few years as a trainer is that most people have the potential to be lean year-round, they simply make the choice not to. They make these small choices daily that hold them back, and at the end of the day it matters. Myself, I prefer to eat well, get to bed early, and train hard more than I enjoy things like cheap food and alcohol.

Personally, I have a hell of a time gaining any fat. For example, for two weeks I ate 10g of carbs/kg of bodyweight per day (so 700g/day), while getting 1.5g of protein/lb of bodyweight and got noticeably leaner, visually and verified through skinfolds.

I don’t intend to imply that people should be as lean as I am, but I honestly see no reason why any competing male athlete should be over 8% bodyfat. Even the 105+ guys would benefit from being leaner, granted it would take more effort to keep that kind of lean mass on you.[/quote]

I’d be interested to hear say your top 5 “daily choices” that you see people making that hold you back. As a strength athlete, and relatively lean one (8-9%) I find I can’t go much leaner than that without making big sacrifices in strength. If you’ve found a way to avoid that I’d definitely be interested in hearing, or even trying it out.[/quote]

It really isn’t complicated at all.

  1. Eat well. Every meal, half of your plate is lean meat, other half is veggies. Drink water. Once a week, have a carb-up meal. If you are leaner the next day, you had the right amount of carbs. If you got fatter, you had too many.
  2. Sleep well. sleep in a bat cave (no light, sound, electronics, nothing. relax before bed, and ensure your magnesium levels are adequate via a RBC magnesium test)
  3. Proper workout nutrition. that means no carbs before or during training. bcaas during the session, protein, glutamine and glycine post workout (add carbs if you have abs).

You can get very far with the above, without changing any of it. My clients do it all the time, so can you.

32

[quote]1llusion wrote:

[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:

[quote]1llusion wrote:
Guess I could have been more clear. I’m not doing the measuring with the callipers, another person is. I’ll work on my clarity in the future.

I’d agree with your last statement, that most people can’t do it. I can’t argue that. But, from what I’ve seen over the last few years as a trainer is that most people have the potential to be lean year-round, they simply make the choice not to. They make these small choices daily that hold them back, and at the end of the day it matters. Myself, I prefer to eat well, get to bed early, and train hard more than I enjoy things like cheap food and alcohol.

Personally, I have a hell of a time gaining any fat. For example, for two weeks I ate 10g of carbs/kg of bodyweight per day (so 700g/day), while getting 1.5g of protein/lb of bodyweight and got noticeably leaner, visually and verified through skinfolds.

I don’t intend to imply that people should be as lean as I am, but I honestly see no reason why any competing male athlete should be over 8% bodyfat. Even the 105+ guys would benefit from being leaner, granted it would take more effort to keep that kind of lean mass on you.[/quote]

I’d be interested to hear say your top 5 “daily choices” that you see people making that hold you back. As a strength athlete, and relatively lean one (8-9%) I find I can’t go much leaner than that without making big sacrifices in strength. If you’ve found a way to avoid that I’d definitely be interested in hearing, or even trying it out.[/quote]

It really isn’t complicated at all.

  1. Eat well. Every meal, half of your plate is lean meat, other half is veggies. Drink water. Once a week, have a carb-up meal. If you are leaner the next day, you had the right amount of carbs. If you got fatter, you had too many.
  2. Sleep well. sleep in a bat cave (no light, sound, electronics, nothing. relax before bed, and ensure your magnesium levels are adequate via a RBC magnesium test)
  3. Proper workout nutrition. that means no carbs before or during training. bcaas during the session, protein, glutamine and glycine post workout (add carbs if you have abs).

You can get very far with the above, without changing any of it. My clients do it all the time, so can you.[/quote]

What’s your best in-competition total?
What’s your best training total?

33

[quote]Invictica wrote:

[quote]1llusion wrote:

[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:

[quote]1llusion wrote:
Guess I could have been more clear. I’m not doing the measuring with the callipers, another person is. I’ll work on my clarity in the future.

I’d agree with your last statement, that most people can’t do it. I can’t argue that. But, from what I’ve seen over the last few years as a trainer is that most people have the potential to be lean year-round, they simply make the choice not to. They make these small choices daily that hold them back, and at the end of the day it matters. Myself, I prefer to eat well, get to bed early, and train hard more than I enjoy things like cheap food and alcohol.

Personally, I have a hell of a time gaining any fat. For example, for two weeks I ate 10g of carbs/kg of bodyweight per day (so 700g/day), while getting 1.5g of protein/lb of bodyweight and got noticeably leaner, visually and verified through skinfolds.

I don’t intend to imply that people should be as lean as I am, but I honestly see no reason why any competing male athlete should be over 8% bodyfat. Even the 105+ guys would benefit from being leaner, granted it would take more effort to keep that kind of lean mass on you.[/quote]

I’d be interested to hear say your top 5 “daily choices” that you see people making that hold you back. As a strength athlete, and relatively lean one (8-9%) I find I can’t go much leaner than that without making big sacrifices in strength. If you’ve found a way to avoid that I’d definitely be interested in hearing, or even trying it out.[/quote]

It really isn’t complicated at all.

  1. Eat well. Every meal, half of your plate is lean meat, other half is veggies. Drink water. Once a week, have a carb-up meal. If you are leaner the next day, you had the right amount of carbs. If you got fatter, you had too many.
  2. Sleep well. sleep in a bat cave (no light, sound, electronics, nothing. relax before bed, and ensure your magnesium levels are adequate via a RBC magnesium test)
  3. Proper workout nutrition. that means no carbs before or during training. bcaas during the session, protein, glutamine and glycine post workout (add carbs if you have abs).

You can get very far with the above, without changing any of it. My clients do it all the time, so can you.[/quote]

What’s your best in-competition total?
What’s your best training total?

[/quote]

When are you going to sack up and qualify for nationals?

34

[quote]Invictica wrote:

[quote]1llusion wrote:

[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:

[quote]1llusion wrote:
Guess I could have been more clear. I’m not doing the measuring with the callipers, another person is. I’ll work on my clarity in the future.

I’d agree with your last statement, that most people can’t do it. I can’t argue that. But, from what I’ve seen over the last few years as a trainer is that most people have the potential to be lean year-round, they simply make the choice not to. They make these small choices daily that hold them back, and at the end of the day it matters. Myself, I prefer to eat well, get to bed early, and train hard more than I enjoy things like cheap food and alcohol.

Personally, I have a hell of a time gaining any fat. For example, for two weeks I ate 10g of carbs/kg of bodyweight per day (so 700g/day), while getting 1.5g of protein/lb of bodyweight and got noticeably leaner, visually and verified through skinfolds.

I don’t intend to imply that people should be as lean as I am, but I honestly see no reason why any competing male athlete should be over 8% bodyfat. Even the 105+ guys would benefit from being leaner, granted it would take more effort to keep that kind of lean mass on you.[/quote]

I’d be interested to hear say your top 5 “daily choices” that you see people making that hold you back. As a strength athlete, and relatively lean one (8-9%) I find I can’t go much leaner than that without making big sacrifices in strength. If you’ve found a way to avoid that I’d definitely be interested in hearing, or even trying it out.[/quote]

It really isn’t complicated at all.

  1. Eat well. Every meal, half of your plate is lean meat, other half is veggies. Drink water. Once a week, have a carb-up meal. If you are leaner the next day, you had the right amount of carbs. If you got fatter, you had too many.
  2. Sleep well. sleep in a bat cave (no light, sound, electronics, nothing. relax before bed, and ensure your magnesium levels are adequate via a RBC magnesium test)
  3. Proper workout nutrition. that means no carbs before or during training. bcaas during the session, protein, glutamine and glycine post workout (add carbs if you have abs).

You can get very far with the above, without changing any of it. My clients do it all the time, so can you.[/quote]

What’s your best in-competition total?
What’s your best training total?

[/quote]

First comp is july 7.
training total 165 @71kg

I’ll qualify for provincials this year, and nationals next year. that’s the goal any ways.

I really don’t understand what you’re finding so difficult about what I posted. Have you ever tried it?

35

1llusion,
Do you have trouble with clients having poor energy level on the diet you describe above?

My training total is same as yours (I haven’t found a meet yet) at 85kg bodyweight. I am not nearly as lean, but I struggle with my energy level. I find that if I have more than two days/week with <100g carbs, my strength drops dramatically, and I become irritable/dysphoric. Are you seeing the meat+veggies working for athletes who train daily? CT, for example advocates a lot of carbs for athletes.

It could also be that I am 39 yrs old and have a very slow metabolism. I gain weight at avg 2,600cal/day with 6x /wk training sessions. I don’t lose weight until I get below 2,000 kcals, and that occurs only with 4x/wk Complexes/HIIT.

36

[quote]orcrist wrote:
1llusion,
Do you have trouble with clients having poor energy level on the diet you describe above?

My training total is same as yours (I haven’t found a meet yet) at 85kg bodyweight. I am not nearly as lean, but I struggle with my energy level. I find that if I have more than two days/week with <100g carbs, my strength drops dramatically, and I become irritable/dysphoric. Are you seeing the meat+veggies working for athletes who train daily? CT, for example advocates a lot of carbs for athletes.

It could also be that I am 39 yrs old and have a very slow metabolism. I gain weight at avg 2,600cal/day with 6x /wk training sessions. I don’t lose weight until I get below 2,000 kcals, and that occurs only with 4x/wk Complexes/HIIT.

[/quote]

No, they don’t have any energy issues because they are eating a ton of meat and veggies throughout the day, and if they have gone zero carb for at least two weeks then they have earned back a little fruit (low glycemic). Most often when a client has energy issues, I have found that they are not getting quality sleep, or are under eating.

I have also found that eating foods that you are sensitive to will drain energy levels, with gluten being at the top of the list.

I know I will get a lot of resistance from this next statement, but who cares. I’m a Poliquin guy through and through, because the methods have worked well for me, and have consistently worked for clients. If other coaches have other methods that work for them, that’s great, but I will always prefer my methods.

37

[quote]TheJonty wrote:

[quote]Invictica wrote:

[quote]1llusion wrote:

[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:

[quote]1llusion wrote:
Guess I could have been more clear. I’m not doing the measuring with the callipers, another person is. I’ll work on my clarity in the future.

I’d agree with your last statement, that most people can’t do it. I can’t argue that. But, from what I’ve seen over the last few years as a trainer is that most people have the potential to be lean year-round, they simply make the choice not to. They make these small choices daily that hold them back, and at the end of the day it matters. Myself, I prefer to eat well, get to bed early, and train hard more than I enjoy things like cheap food and alcohol.

Personally, I have a hell of a time gaining any fat. For example, for two weeks I ate 10g of carbs/kg of bodyweight per day (so 700g/day), while getting 1.5g of protein/lb of bodyweight and got noticeably leaner, visually and verified through skinfolds.

I don’t intend to imply that people should be as lean as I am, but I honestly see no reason why any competing male athlete should be over 8% bodyfat. Even the 105+ guys would benefit from being leaner, granted it would take more effort to keep that kind of lean mass on you.[/quote]

I’d be interested to hear say your top 5 “daily choices” that you see people making that hold you back. As a strength athlete, and relatively lean one (8-9%) I find I can’t go much leaner than that without making big sacrifices in strength. If you’ve found a way to avoid that I’d definitely be interested in hearing, or even trying it out.[/quote]

It really isn’t complicated at all.

  1. Eat well. Every meal, half of your plate is lean meat, other half is veggies. Drink water. Once a week, have a carb-up meal. If you are leaner the next day, you had the right amount of carbs. If you got fatter, you had too many.
  2. Sleep well. sleep in a bat cave (no light, sound, electronics, nothing. relax before bed, and ensure your magnesium levels are adequate via a RBC magnesium test)
  3. Proper workout nutrition. that means no carbs before or during training. bcaas during the session, protein, glutamine and glycine post workout (add carbs if you have abs).

You can get very far with the above, without changing any of it. My clients do it all the time, so can you.[/quote]

What’s your best in-competition total?
What’s your best training total?

[/quote]

When are you going to sack up and qualify for nationals?[/quote]

This year mang. I’m putting up 106/125 in training, so I should qualify at the next comp

38

[quote]1llusion wrote:

[quote]Invictica wrote:

[quote]1llusion wrote:

[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:

[quote]1llusion wrote:
Guess I could have been more clear. I’m not doing the measuring with the callipers, another person is. I’ll work on my clarity in the future.

I’d agree with your last statement, that most people can’t do it. I can’t argue that. But, from what I’ve seen over the last few years as a trainer is that most people have the potential to be lean year-round, they simply make the choice not to. They make these small choices daily that hold them back, and at the end of the day it matters. Myself, I prefer to eat well, get to bed early, and train hard more than I enjoy things like cheap food and alcohol.

Personally, I have a hell of a time gaining any fat. For example, for two weeks I ate 10g of carbs/kg of bodyweight per day (so 700g/day), while getting 1.5g of protein/lb of bodyweight and got noticeably leaner, visually and verified through skinfolds.

I don’t intend to imply that people should be as lean as I am, but I honestly see no reason why any competing male athlete should be over 8% bodyfat. Even the 105+ guys would benefit from being leaner, granted it would take more effort to keep that kind of lean mass on you.[/quote]

I’d be interested to hear say your top 5 “daily choices” that you see people making that hold you back. As a strength athlete, and relatively lean one (8-9%) I find I can’t go much leaner than that without making big sacrifices in strength. If you’ve found a way to avoid that I’d definitely be interested in hearing, or even trying it out.[/quote]

It really isn’t complicated at all.

  1. Eat well. Every meal, half of your plate is lean meat, other half is veggies. Drink water. Once a week, have a carb-up meal. If you are leaner the next day, you had the right amount of carbs. If you got fatter, you had too many.
  2. Sleep well. sleep in a bat cave (no light, sound, electronics, nothing. relax before bed, and ensure your magnesium levels are adequate via a RBC magnesium test)
  3. Proper workout nutrition. that means no carbs before or during training. bcaas during the session, protein, glutamine and glycine post workout (add carbs if you have abs).

You can get very far with the above, without changing any of it. My clients do it all the time, so can you.[/quote]

What’s your best in-competition total?
What’s your best training total?

[/quote]

First comp is july 7.
training total 165 @71kg

I’ll qualify for provincials this year, and nationals next year. that’s the goal any ways.

I really don’t understand what you’re finding so difficult about what I posted. Have you ever tried it?
[/quote]

Yes I have. What you said is simply common sense for all athletes, nothing revolutionary. But that alone isn’t enough when you are putting up significantly higher numbers. Not to shit on your parade, but your total is on the low side. Granted we all have to start somewhere, I don’t think you should speak as a voice of authority for strength athletes since your own strength is not exactly top notch.

However, if you are putting up very big numbers in the next little while, staying sub 8% BF, then I would very much want to learn more of what you’re doing. Until then, please heed the advice and warning of stronger/more experienced lifters.

39

[quote]Invictica wrote:

Yes I have. What you said is simply common sense for all athletes, nothing revolutionary. But that alone isn’t enough when you are putting up significantly higher numbers. Not to shit on your parade, but your total is on the low side. Granted we all have to start somewhere, I don’t think you should speak as a voice of authority for strength athletes since your own strength is not exactly top notch.

However, if you are putting up very big numbers in the next little while, staying sub 8% BF, then I would very much want to learn more of what you’re doing. Until then, please heed the advice and warning of stronger/more experienced lifters.

[/quote]

I am very well aware that my lifts are absolutely nothing to shake a stick at, and not once have I claimed to be an authority. An opinion was asked for, and I gave mine. Where have I gone wrong?

Clearly you and I are getting nowhere in this discussion, so we’ll have to agree to disagree.