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Lots of DOMS…No Pump

Been utilizing 30-10-30 regularly for a couple months. Experience muscle soreness, but no pump like with volume. Minimal results. Ricky, Mark, Dr. Darden, others comment?

Hi imbubber,

Sad to hear. Please tell me/us more about your diet/calories, sleep, other stress and workout routine/schedule and choice of excercises re 30-10-30? Also your age/stats and previous training experience is good to know. There should be a sound explanation for this.

Try to video some of your workout , so that Dr Darden can give you some feedback.

Mark

What speed are you using on the 10-rep portion?

=== Scott==
If I recall you are 78 years old and have done lots of different routines through out the years? Having done routines in the past where I was chasing the pump I don’t find 30 10 30 comes close to that feel but at 68 I’m still making progress reps and weight wise. With 30 10 30 I’m not feeling as much muscle soreness after a workout like I used to. With out more info on you I can only throw out a guess that maybe you are pushing to close too failure and or not giving yourself enough time to recover??

If you are 78 years old, you may be partially dehydrated. Drink a lot of water before your workout, during your workout, and after your workout. That may help you get more of a pump.

Perhaps others with more experience can chime in, but extra muscle soreness does not seem to be something that is associated with using 30-10-30, at least as it is currently taught (with failure de-emphasized). I get the impression it is supposed to be easier to recover from.

On the other hand, it is an eccentric emphasized protocol, and eccentrics are typically associated with greater DOMS. Perhaps the eccentric emphasis is sufficiently novel for you that it creates more soreness than you typically get?

I am curious as what your expectations were in terms of results? If you had already been training pretty hard using other approaches, you might not have a lot of upside potential, especially given your age.

For what it’s worth from MY experiences over 34 years of hard, consistent training ;

I never got anything from reps so slow that I had to count or have someone time them for me - I guess I just lose the mind/muscle connection when I become so concerned in moving ‘too fast’. I tried the old Super Slow 25 years ago for a solid 9 months and was the biggest waste of time I spent on a training method. Just wasn’t for me.

I did give this 30-10-30 a try (briefly) and got ‘flash backs’ of my old SS. Like you I got no pump or feeling like I had a great workout, etc. so I’m back to my regular 2-3 set per exercise / three way split. I have great pumps but have been using a homemade pre-workout drink with L-Arginine and L-Citrilline malate for years and believe that helps a lot as far as pumps.

I’m not finding fault with the 30-10-30 for anyone other than myself as it’s obviously working for many of those who tried it. I’m just not one of them.

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Once in a while I might feel a little soreness after 30 10 30 NTF but more than not I don’t feel much of any afterward unless I substituted an exercise I haven’t done in a while. In fact the other day I finally uncovered my Nautilus double chest so I could use it and I substituted it for push-ups and the next day after 30 10 30 I felt very little soreness. If I had done that with my usual one or two sets to failure I’d be sore as heck the next day.
Scott

Did you not try Doctor’s 30-30-30 which (I beleive) he says is better efficacy if one can handle the intensity?

I’ve been using 30-10-30 on many exercises (mostly 25-10-25). I built a Scott Curl device years ago but I never found it to be effective for my biceps using 2-4 or 3-5 and such protocols. But for the very first time I found Scott Curls with a barbell using a 25-10-25 protocol to be so effective that my biceps “felt” it for two workouts in a row. I was physically and mentally pumped as a result! Been using a 25-10-25 protocol on standing calf raises for several weeks now with 10# increases every single workout.

Thanks for your responses. As entsminger noted, have been around a long time (actually survived another birthday last October). I was actually asking if others have had similar experiences as I. Guess not.

Been utilizing 30-10-30 regularly for a couple months. Experience muscle soreness, but no pump like with volume. Minimal results. Ricky, Mark, Dr. Darden, others comment?
== Scott ==
If I recall I said I didn’t get the kind of pump like is had with high volume. As for results I guess it depends on your definition of results . While I have been doing 30 10 30 I have seen reps go up and weights increase , maybe between 5 to 10 pounds in two months . That’s more than I usually got before. Do I look any more muscular or bigger? I can’t tell but remember I am not going by the book with Dardens worked out 30 day plan and all the magic elixirs like Plazma and body analyzers etc . I just replaced my usual 2,sets of 10–15 reps with one set of 30 10 30. It’s gotten so I expect to go up a rep or two in each exercise every workout, that didn’t happen very often doing my old workout. So far I’m thinking that’s pretty good results considering I skipped much of Dardens plan!

All thru the years of different workouts…the only time I got a great pump is high volume and forcing blood into the muscle…i.e. 5 sets of 10 per exercise with about 30 to 60 seconds in between each set…no actual strength or size increase, the pump made it feel like it I got bigger

I do get pump from 30-10-30. Not pronounced, but nevertheless solid pump. As Dr Darden stated before it is important to prevent dehydration. If I might add, it is also important to have digested enough of slow carbohydrates. How to measure that? Well, if you notice fatique and not being able to take the set where you want it - I would first aim for proper hydration, then eat more carbohydrates. A third guess, would be overtraining and thus take more days off.

Citrullin malate (or arginine) may aid pump, but in my case it didn’t make much of a difference.

All thru the years of different workouts…the only time I got a great pump is high volume and forcing blood into the muscle…i.e. 5 sets of 10 per exercise with about 30 to 60 seconds in between each set…no actual strength or size increase, the pump made it feel like it I got bigger

== Scott ==
Did you try that routine for weeks or months? I’m wondering if eventually it would have translated into visible results ?
It’s encouraging when you go up in weight or reps doing 30 10 30 or any other routine but in the end if I can’t see some visible muscular improvement after many months or so who cares if I go up 50 pounds or so on the machine? It may not be permanent but at least with the pump routine you get a good feeling during the workout .

It was 30 years ago in my twenties following the Arnold and Franco routine…i looked like I worked out, but it never amounted to all the hype that was presented in the mags…did it for years, :laughing:

Something about this discussion reminded me of an old friend who had a job and lifetime membership to Holiday Spas . For years he was always there working or working out . One day he invited me to go to the gym with him and to workout . I remember they had some Nautilus that I immediately jumped on, he stuck to free weights. I watched him do a few sets of incline bench presses etc and I noticed he always stopped short of failure by a rep or two. I was used to always going to failure. With his shirt off you might have guessed he worked out but he was a former wrestler. He was pretty strong for his size but I always felt he should have been twice as big as he was for all the years he’d worked out there. I always wondered if not going to failure hindered his growth?
Scott

I made my best gains going to failure and not over training…but still nothing to look at. :laughing:

I made my best gains between the ages of 17 and 20 something when training to failure but I was very conscious of recovery . I wouldn’t do anything that might interfere with my recovery. Hey let’s go to the pool, no, it’s not my pull day. Let’s play some football, no it’s not my leg day. I sacrificed a whole lot of life for muscle that didn’t amount to a hill of beans. Years later I found triathlons and started doing them and HIT . I found I made just as many gains doing all that at the same time as triathlons etc and I think it was because I was young and my body adapted to the stress.