T Nation

Lost! What Do I Do Now

Hello everyone…male, 44, 1.79mtr ( schrunk 2 cm) 63kg and lost.

The story so far, lower back problems started early in my life, age of 17 i started fitness in order to strenght my back through fhysio. Did this on and off for about 10 years and was never that motivated cause i never really gained mass or musclle, so when my back acted up i jumped on to the weights…back got worse and knees where also becoming a problem.

took every painkiller in the mid range in these 10 years…naproxem, ibu, you name it i took it, until one day i wasn’t able to move again and i got tramadol and valium…this worked great and i noticed that my cramping up made the problem worse until you werent able to move anymore. And now with a opiod and a musclle relaxer…but anyhow i decided to make training a part of life, cause my body was giving me to much pain, and with the new meds it was getting better. Training became a way of life, and now i wanted to gain some musclle to…i’ve tried it all, every sup, diet, weightgainer, high calories…you name it i did it, but nothing for the years to follow…so i’m around 32 and still 62kg…i know heard it all before, you must be doing something wrong…work out, food…and now i started at a construction site where almost everybody worked out, all huge bodybuilders.

at this job i talked to a guy who told me about testosterone and pointed me to my lack of facial hair, and asked about my energy and libido. In my eyes this was all in order, but long story short…i decide to try some steroids. When my first cycle kicked in i realized that the things he asked me where never in order, i Always thought other men where pigs, looking at every girl, thinking with there dicks…i was different then any other men, never looked at other woman except my own wife, i had sex once a week because the rest of the week i mostly slept after dinner, so saterday was my night to get in the mood with some visual things like mags or movies, and some alcohol to make it last some longer. The day after i Always paid a heavy hang-over price in the extreme way, so my sundays were gone. For me this was normal, energy was Always low because i worked construction, heavy work takes his toll so i never did things after work besides working out, shower and eat, and then fall a sleep. But now with testosterone in my body, things chanced, i was happy, had loads of energy wanted to do fun stuff and offcourse for the first time in my life, sex, that was all i was thinking about…so now i got a whole new look on things, problems i never saw as problems became clear to me, i gained weight, started to grow hair on my chin and chest, i felt complete for the first time in my life.

Sorry for the long story but i have to explain it best i can.
By now i started looking in low test and realized that everything besides bellyfat was a sympton i never saw as a problem…10 weeks went by, 10 great weeks and then i had to come off, no pct and a deep dark hole waited for me for the next 10 weeks…ok now i was reading about pct and trt…next cycle i’m gonna do a super pct so i can feel great non stop, nolvadex and hcg, and a shit load of supps, but again a big black hole after another great 10 weeks. So by now i went to see the doc, and he did some bloodwork and prescriped me androgel, this is the part where i fucked up…androgel didn’t come close to what i felt on injections so instead of seeing the doc, i jumped back to injecting test, but now i would not come of anymore, and with all the info i read about trt…i got it covered, and understand that me taking testosterone had nothing to do with growing muscle anymore. Got my test from the net with some different AI’s and started to find a sweet spot…no bloodwork offcourse ( dumb i know) and with the shit you find online or stuff getting seized…i took me about a year before i ended up with my first Endo…worst experience ever, bloodwork was low offcourse but the talk turned ugly when this older doc was giving me a lecture about what the fuck i was doing and if i thought i could do his job, so with some cursing i walked out and in the back of my head i was allready planning for my even better trt protocol…was off for couple of months to see this endo so i felt like shit…again failed miserable and ended up at a other endo a year later…this one told me that people with problems came to him, not people that where looking for some free testosterone, and trust me, i looked nothing like a bodybuilder with my 74kg around this time, i didn’t got mad, thank’d him and went home…now there was now way i was gonna screw this up again, i need to keep the E2 on track cause this was causing my most issues…hcg, proviron, arimidex, clomid, everything i could get my hands on…with offcourse a basic testosterone cyp. this hole mess lasted 10 years with the first six years feeling ok with ups and downs…never did any bloodwork except for the endo’s.

In the same time period the lower back pain and knees, turned out to be artose, a different story with lots of wrong help and diagnoses cause i was traing harder and taking more pain meds when the years past, in the end my knees back and shoulders became a real problem, and in the end i was taking 3xtramadol 50mg 3xvalium 5mg and 1000gr paracetamol on a good day to get through a work day. this was at the end of the first six years, and when my shoulder started to grow a new shoulder i was informed that the artose was allready visable on x rays from years before…the ones they took to see if there was a hernia, and that was the outcome…nope, no hernia. I stopped working and we moved to Germany where i renovated our new bought home…in Germany they took away my pain meds and stuffed me with other shit, and still i was messing with the testosterone…the last 4 years it only helped me to get energy and my mood…libido was gone, and i mean GONE…and i knew i fucked up.
in august 2018 i threw it all away, cold Turkey and with the intention to get help. Did bloodwork in feb 2019 and what do you know…normal test and everything ok…wtf???

So explained the whole thruth to my doc, ( living back in holland again) and asked to see a endo…again bloodwork, and the list was this…FS LH Test and free test? i got this list to get my blood taken and i crossed some other thing that i could think of…Oestradiol, progesteron en SHBG

FSH 53
LH 5
progesteron 0.34
oestradiol 79
Free test 269.4
testosterone 31
SHBG 118

doc and endo found it great…nice bloodwork, you should be happy so the endo didn’t even want to see me.
i feel like shit on every level…no explaining needed i hope
so again i started to try to wake them up and looked for another endo…this one agreed to see me, and had nothing else to say that my blood looks in check??? wtf, and what about my SHBG…nope they just use this to calculate free test…euhm its double the upper limit???
Again…door slamed in my face…
i am lost…what can i do now? docs here with current Healthcare system wont see you anymore, my bloodwork wont make them see, and the fact that i have injecting testosterone for 10 years…aargghhhh

I couldn’t read all. Update with ranges for labs.
And b did you check lipids? Metabolic panel? CBC? Thyroid?

Also on the labs what protocol if any were you on?

i wish i could give you more, but this is what the endo ordered for a bloodpanel, before that i had a bloodcheck from the doctor…vitamines thyroids all the importent stuff…not much outcome except for high cholestrol, me 62kg, no more meat at that point, no alcohol and nothing that contains anykind of shit that doesn’t belong in our food…and offcourse the vitamine D…i dont even want to discuss this part cause when you look up in our sky’s then everybody who gets tested for vit d would be low on that. as far as the bloodwork for the endo…all i have is a picture taken with my wifes phone

So your total t is great free t low because of very high shbg.

You may have an underlying condition. Do further testing to rule out. Do metabolic blood panel that includes liver enzymes and glucose. Also need thyroid panel.

High levels of SHBG can be related to:

  • Hepatitis
  • Hyperthyroidism
  • HIV
  • Anticonvulsants, or medicine used to treat seizures

Read this @max74


thanks, couldn’t find much myself on high shbg except for this forum.

Those painkillers you were on are still screwing you up. Tramadol is serious stuff, and should not be used the way it was prescribed to you. You have serious neurotransmitter issues now most likely, and you should be prescribed something for that high SHBG. Your free test being so low is the main problem. Low free T means low dopamine.

i know what crap these meds are, but i quit once ( cold Turkey without any problems) but after they wore out, i knew why i have to take this junk again…i live with serieus back, knee’s and schoulder pain and this affects every movement you make.
Doctors have no answer to why i have this through my whole body, they blame it on the work i did…plumber, but i’m 44 not 64…i wouldn’t be suprised if my artrose and hormones are related …also a late puberty, and early back issues.
i will quit again but i am currently renovating our house…goes verry slow cause there is no motivation or energy…but i am aware of the shit i’m putting in my body.

I am 46 and started working construction in the summer full-time at 12. I spent a lot of my life working as a mason. Brick, block, concrete, stone. Nothing light. I have done every trade, at least temporarily. I was a competitive Strongman and did some Highland Games. I have zero joint issues and zero pain as a result of that. I would try to figure out what’s going on if I were you.

ok, to explain that part…quited my own company with in the back of my head to get myself fixed, wrong move i guess cause now i’m no longer a taxpayer and not working ( not on wellfare), but you could clearly notice the difference. When i worked and my knee needed surgery, i had the possibility to go in 2 days time, while other people wait for months.
After i stopped working i first went for my back and schoulders, but the end result is Always the same…euhm when it hurts just take some paracetamol??? I would have been better of going to Afrika and let some medican men beat me on the head with some lettuce. I have visited 4 specialist in the past year, they all want to cut away the extra bone i’m growing on my schoulder but it will return. with my last experience with yet 2 other endo’s my hope in help from this system is gone, its frustrating, humiliating and so on. Everytime you get hope, and in the end you leave with nothing. Best investment ever this Healthcare…more then 200 euros a month and all you get is some nosespray when you walk around with flu that last for 4 weeks.
I’m affraid its up to myself again, but now i need to find out what to look for and what to test…bloodwork is not insured either so these fucks allready made some hard cash on me in the last 3 times

It seems there is no other way then having my blood checked again, what should i pressure for? And please take the pain killers of the front seat, these wil go once i finished my house, and they allready were away for about 9 months…i feel excactly what this shit does to my body and when i quited the rest of the problems remained, problems that i had before i even got in contact with tramadol…besides that, thats the only thing that helps with the pain, had the rest like diclofinac and other shit…its all shit. I stopped pain killers, meat, super low on sugars and salt…eating only natural…fruits veggies and nuts…i’ve tried it all but me and my wife and kid even never felt any difference, thats when you start to understand that there is no way of healthy living…every food or drink we consume is modivied in some way, we cloth our selfs with chemicals, wash and brush, clean.ect…

First of all, thanks to all that gave me some info…
Wrote down my complete story to paint a complete picture.
Yes i’m also on pain meds but the main reason for me asking help was is because i saw some folks here with a lot of knowledge on this high SHGB thing.

Long story short version…self administrating TRT for 10 years with ups and downs
Reading here allready made me see that i was doing it wrong.
Quit cold Turkey in August 2018 cause the last 4 years i had no libido anymore on every level…quiting ment seeking help cause after 10 years injecting testosterone there is no possible way that bloodwork would be fine.
Bloodwork isn’t fine but according to 2 different endo’s its super and everything is ok.
Endocrinology here in Europe is not the same as in the US, the are way behind with TRT and thats what what i read and noticed in these 10 years on many trt forums.
The bloodwork they wanted me to do was
FSH, LH, Free Testosteron And Testosteron…myself crossed a few things extra in a hurry…thing i reconized…Progesteron, Oestradiol, SHBG

Most tests do not contain a upper or lower limit…but found SHGB online and upperlimit is 60

FSH 5.9
LH 5
Progesteron 0.34
Oestradiol 79 <230 reference?
Free testosteron 269.4 reference 160-640
Testosteron 31 reference 8.8-32.4
SHBG 118

Endo that did invite me to talk said the same as the endo that didn’t even want to see me with such great bloodwork…your blood looks fine, and SHBG is only used to calculate free testosterone?

Sort of true. Your T and free T both actually look good. Your problem is libido, so treat libido. Guys taking TRT don’t have your numbers, that is apparently not your problem.

i was hoping for some more responce, sinds my SHGB is the highest on this forum, but i can understand that the lack of info with the small list on my bloodwork doesn’t give anything to go on…
i found a private clinic that i will contact tomorow, and w’ll see how it goes from there.
Hope they can help me fast and who knows what they will find or know about these of the charts SHBG, anyhow…any info that could help others i will post as soon as possible.

Could you provide the units?

would you agree with me that injecting 10 years of testosterone should fuck up your own production? After the second time i visited a endo, around 8 years ago i was allready looking in to quiting myself, but all the horror story’s you see on guys not ever coming back from a couple of years TRT, made me decide to go on, and before i even started i had low numbers. Me getting this bloodwork outcome made my eyes pop out…am i somekind of superhuman…so yes i am a litlle clueles on how my bloodwork looks so great after 10 years of injecting myself…except for the SHGB part offcourse.

sorry…i got nothing but a picture that my wife took from the endo’s computer…i wrote down excactly what you see in my post…could ask the doc but i dont even feel like ever going there sinds they dont take my list of problems serieus sinds my bloodwork looks fine, and i did a complete check up on blood before the endo wanted some more bloodwork done.
From what i read about this private clinic, i will go through a huge bloodpanel and urine tests…i’ll make sure i get these numbers this time

Many long term anabolic steroid users (they would be called abusers by the uninitiated) come back fine. Not everyone, but it is certainly not rare.

OK, I wanted to convert those to something familiar.

I’ll take a stab at this. Your total testosterone is at the top end and free test towards the lower. SHBG off the charts. E2 low end. How much were you taking? I would look to double your free testosterone and estradiol.

i know my blood doesn’t look great, but the endo thinks its wonderfull, especialy with me TRT-ing on my own for 10 years…
what did i take, mostly test cyp, around 200 mg every 7th or 8th day…also wrong i see now here on this forum, but thats the info i found 9 years ago.
the last 4 years my libido was gone, and then i just tried everything, high dose low dose, with 2 weeks between shots…for AI, i stuck to tamofixen or clomid, but only for a couple of weeks when i felt my niplles…for the rest, 10 years is a long time and i’ve tried so much…proviron, hcg, arimidex, all kinds of testosteron, test E, test c, test u, sustanon…

sinds i quited in august my live is hell, but i needed to seek medical help cause my libido was gone, i have zero energy, zero motivation for everything, still no libido and headache once a week that last for 2 days…and i mean severe headache, my memory is showing big holes and i no mather how tired i am, the moment my head touches my pillow, i cant sleep anymore. no need to explain my mood cause none of this shit is making anyone happy.

Long term use should have resulted in a low SHBG, not a high one. Libido has an indirect correlation to Test, so you need to give more specifics. Did you use any orals? Anadrol, halotestin? 200 mg every 7 or 8 days of Test C or E is actually fine for most guys, if a little high. More common is 125-150 mg, but once a week is not unusual or wrong. You should be looking into why your SHBG is high, if it is - it really depends on the ranges that we don’t have. That may not even be high.