T Nation

Loss of Freedoms

Politics and World Issues
#21

[quote]etaco wrote:
A lower court made an improper ruling. It happens now and always has, and in worse cases than this. There are plenty of things to be pessimistic about wrt the future of our freedoms in general, but until this ruling survives an appeal, it really isn’t a big one.[/quote]

Etaco, I agree and I wasn’t trying to imply that the CA homeschool was the end of the world. I just think its nuts that people are ok with the gov getting involved in this type of issue. First its homeschooling, next its what our kids eat, then they will pass a bill telling us our kids have to be in bed by 9. I just don’t see how we let our gov takeover shit thats none of their business. I can’t wait till the day comes where as soon as a mother gives birth the kid is taken away to a government orphanage, because we all know the gov can raise kids better than parents.

#22

Can’t remember the thread, but it dealt with health care in the US, and someone said something along the lines of: If we get gov. Health Care, then whats stopping the gov. from forcing you to get regular check-ups, forcing preventative medication, forcing surgeries? I just don’t like how we are turning into a Nanny state. They think they can run your life better than you can.

#23

Oh and one issue that really pisses me off here in Arkansas, In a car its the law to wear a seatbelt, yet its not a law to wear a helmet on a motorcycle. Do they pull this shit straight outta their asses?

#24

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
Paul Colinvaux, who wrote one of the best explanations I have read of why history happens, and why it will always repeat itself…[/quote]

"History can tell us what happened in the past. But it cannot assert that it must happen again in the future." - Mises

History is the totality of universal experience which has no conceptual beginning nor an apparent end. If there is no beginning or end to history how can it repeat itself?

What we think of as history repeating itself is merely a misapplication of cause and effect. There is no reason to believe that an apparent historical cause will reproduce any given effect.

History does not – nor will it ever – repeat itself.

#25

I won’t get into a vehicle without a seatbelt, or on a bike or ATV without a helmet, and I still can’t stand seatbelt and helmet laws. If somebody chooses not to wear a seatbelt or helmet, then they should have that choice and we should let Darwin work his wonders, but the gov doesn’t need to have any say on this issue.

I feel the same way about smoking bans. I’m a non-smoker, but I can’t stand the bans. Let the free market and business ownersdetermine which restaurants should allow smoking and which shouldn’t. If anything, smoking should be banned in outdoor public areas. Everybody has a right to use public property, and it is in these cases where it is impractical to try to avoid the smoke. I can choose to not go into a smoky bar, but when I’m walking down the street and or through a public park is when I can’t avoid it without going out of my way.

#26

[quote]tedro wrote:
I won’t get into a vehicle without a seatbelt, or on a bike or ATV without a helmet, and I still can’t stand seatbelt and helmet laws. If somebody chooses not to wear a seatbelt or helmet, then they should have that choice and we should let Darwin work his wonders, but the gov doesn’t need to have any say on this issue.

…[/quote]

It doesn’t but the insurance companies do. That is the root of the problem. Driving without a seat belt costs us all more money in health care, insurance premiums etc.

I don’t have a good solution because I find the seat belt laws etc distasteful.

#27

[quote]Regular Gonzalez wrote:
ukrainian wrote:
I think freedom of speech is largely disappearing nowadays. Say one thing that the masses say they do not agree with (even though some do but they do not admit it), and every gives you shit until they forget about it or you leave the vicinity.

Also, there are now certain words or topics that once you say the word or discuss the topic, everyone goes crazy, and again, keeps giving you shit. The loss of freedom of speech is the worst thing that has happened in the United States because this will have future reprecussions that will cipple the democracy of the United States.

I agree with you that there are certain words and topics that can’t be mentioned without people going completely crazy and irrational. While this can be quite infuriating I don’t think that this is the same as a loss of freedom of speech.

You still have the legal right to talk about the topics that these people find offensive and they still have the right to give you shit about it.

I think the solution is for normal people to stop giving a shit about what overly sensitive, painfully politically correct types think. Just say what you think and let them be offended.
[/quote]

That is basically what I meant. The government is not taking the freedom of speech away, but the general population is.

#28

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
tedro wrote:
I won’t get into a vehicle without a seatbelt, or on a bike or ATV without a helmet, and I still can’t stand seatbelt and helmet laws. If somebody chooses not to wear a seatbelt or helmet, then they should have that choice and we should let Darwin work his wonders, but the gov doesn’t need to have any say on this issue.

…

It doesn’t but the insurance companies do. That is the root of the problem. Driving without a seat belt costs us all more money in health care, insurance premiums etc.

I don’t have a good solution because I find the seat belt laws etc distasteful.[/quote]

Let the insurance companies, if they choose, put in a clause that says you aren’t covered if not wearing a seatbelt. Then all you have is liability to deal with. The bottom line is to just let the free market work it out, I am sure there is a fair solution out there.

Better yet, let’s make it tougher to get a driver’s license in the first place so that we eliminate the majority of bad drivers and thus reduce accidents. Too bad that will never happen.

#29

[quote]tedro wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
tedro wrote:
I won’t get into a vehicle without a seatbelt, or on a bike or ATV without a helmet, and I still can’t stand seatbelt and helmet laws. If somebody chooses not to wear a seatbelt or helmet, then they should have that choice and we should let Darwin work his wonders, but the gov doesn’t need to have any say on this issue.

…

It doesn’t but the insurance companies do. That is the root of the problem. Driving without a seat belt costs us all more money in health care, insurance premiums etc.

I don’t have a good solution because I find the seat belt laws etc distasteful.

Let the insurance companies, if they choose, put in a clause that says you aren’t covered if not wearing a seatbelt. Then all you have is liability to deal with. The bottom line is to just let the free market work it out, I am sure there is a fair solution out there.

Better yet, let’s make it tougher to get a driver’s license in the first place so that we eliminate the majority of bad drivers and thus reduce accidents. Too bad that will never happen.[/quote]

How in the fuck would women get anywhere?

#30

[quote]dk44 wrote:
next its what our kids eat,[/quote]

Between trans fats and raw (unpasteurized) milk, I’d say we’re already at that stage.

#31

[quote]dk44 wrote:
How in the fuck would women get anywhere?[/quote]

Why would women NEED to get anywhere? There aren’t any roads to drive on in the kitchen.

#32

HAHAHAHA!

#33

[quote]ukrainian wrote:
Regular Gonzalez wrote:
ukrainian wrote:
I think freedom of speech is largely disappearing nowadays. Say one thing that the masses say they do not agree with (even though some do but they do not admit it), and every gives you shit until they forget about it or you leave the vicinity.

Also, there are now certain words or topics that once you say the word or discuss the topic, everyone goes crazy, and again, keeps giving you shit. The loss of freedom of speech is the worst thing that has happened in the United States because this will have future reprecussions that will cipple the democracy of the United States.

I agree with you that there are certain words and topics that can’t be mentioned without people going completely crazy and irrational. While this can be quite infuriating I don’t think that this is the same as a loss of freedom of speech.
You still have the legal right to talk about the topics that these people find offensive and they still have the right to give you shit about it.

I think the solution is for normal people to stop giving a shit about what overly sensitive, painfully politically correct types think. Just say what you think and let them be offended.

That is basically what I meant. The government is not taking the freedom of speech away, but the general population is.
[/quote]

I don’t really have any complete thoughts but this is something that bothers me as well. Every era and culture has had its taboos but it’s hard for me to figure from this vantage point whether things are becoming worse or not with the important stuff. It seems like the PC thing is completely pervasive but the “PC” label only seems to be applied to the bullshit hypersensitivities of other people while ones own hypersensitivities are just natural good taste or somehow so far beyond reproach that suggesting that they may be hypersensitivities is itself a heinously offensive act.

I do feel like the nature of the media and modern communication amplifies the powers of certain fringe groups that know how to leverage their voice. Tiny little groups can launch public protests or boycotts against much larger entities serving the interests of far more people but because the media loves conflict, the voices of the motivated fringe elements will drown out those of the masses. Shrillness beats being right, rational, or factually correct in the battle for attention and it stifles public discourse and individual rights.

Politicians also seem to have gotten better in recent years-- I could be wrong-- in dialing in the melodrama to an effective level thanks in part it seems to methods from modern adversing and psychology. They’ve always tried the same old stuff but I get the impression that while the arms race in bullshit may balance out in who among them wins, it just leaves the rest of us deeper still in shit. Then again it could be that its no different than ever before and its just my vantage point that makes me think this.

#34

[quote]dk44 wrote:
tedro wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
tedro wrote:
I won’t get into a vehicle without a seatbelt, or on a bike or ATV without a helmet, and I still can’t stand seatbelt and helmet laws. If somebody chooses not to wear a seatbelt or helmet, then they should have that choice and we should let Darwin work his wonders, but the gov doesn’t need to have any say on this issue.

…

It doesn’t but the insurance companies do. That is the root of the problem. Driving without a seat belt costs us all more money in health care, insurance premiums etc.

I don’t have a good solution because I find the seat belt laws etc distasteful.

Let the insurance companies, if they choose, put in a clause that says you aren’t covered if not wearing a seatbelt. Then all you have is liability to deal with. The bottom line is to just let the free market work it out, I am sure there is a fair solution out there.

Better yet, let’s make it tougher to get a driver’s license in the first place so that we eliminate the majority of bad drivers and thus reduce accidents. Too bad that will never happen.

How in the fuck would women get anywhere?[/quote]

Hitchhike. Gas, grass or ass, no one rides for free!

#35

“Hitchhike. Gas, grass or ass, no one rides for free!” -Zap

Ha thats good too…looks like my comment completely ruined the integrity of this thread.

#36

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
tedro wrote:
I won’t get into a vehicle without a seatbelt, or on a bike or ATV without a helmet, and I still can’t stand seatbelt and helmet laws. If somebody chooses not to wear a seatbelt or helmet, then they should have that choice and we should let Darwin work his wonders, but the gov doesn’t need to have any say on this issue.

…

It doesn’t but the insurance companies do. That is the root of the problem. Driving without a seat belt costs us all more money in health care, insurance premiums etc.

I don’t have a good solution because I find the seat belt laws etc distasteful.[/quote]

You and me both