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Losing Strength on a Cut, Advice Needed

EDIT: Read my Last post, this is not the diet I’m following anymore

I’m cutting for a month now and I beginning to loose strength, stamina, my joint hurt more than usually and It’s more difficult to sleep. I did probably already lose muscle. I need some help, I don’t want to mess it all.

Weight 251 lbs @ around 22-25% fat. Lost 5 pounds in a month, none in the last 1 week and half

Daily eating, no cheat meal
07h00: 2 scoop whey, 16 once milk, 1/2 cup oat, berry
12h00: 1 cup of rice, 8 once of meat
16h00: 1 scoop whey in water
17h30: Workout
19h00: 2 scoop whey in 8 once milk
19h30: 4 eggs, 2 slice of bread, some cheese

My workout schedule is 3 day on 1 off. 2 exercises by muscle group, 6 set of 3, ramping
1: Chest,Shoulders, tri
2: Back, Bi
3: Legs

My bench has drop from 255x3 for my last set to 235x2. I’m going to eat more for now and suspend the cut a little until I regain my strength.

Please give me your input, if I need to change my workout or whatever.

Um, are all your sessions 6x3? That might be the answer right there.

I’ll give you some “reality feedback” that I rarely see posted here on this subject. Unless you are a serious drug-assisted athlete, and even in many of those cases, you will eventually lose “some” strength on a cutting diet.

I’ve seen some people post “I’ve gained strength while cutting”, etc. I’d say in response to those: either you are taking some drugs or you are in the newbie stages of lifting still. Very, very few people will maintain all of their strength while cutting down. Your numbers may not dip much, but they will dip.

Bottom-line is that you have to get over the lifting numbers just a little bit if you want to really lean out. It has happened to me every single time I’ve cut now matter which type of parameters I’ve manipulated: lifting style (heavy/low rep, volume-focused/short rest time, etc), diet style, energy type work, etc. For me, it just comes with the territory. With that being said, every time I’ve bulked again I always end up stronger than I was during the last cycle.

The goal is to just minimize strength loss since it’s so difficult to maintain 100% of your strength when cutting. If your losing a significant amount of strength early on then you may be dropping too many calories too fast. For only losing 5 lbs in a month at your initial weight and bf %, I wouldn’t think you would be losing that much on your bench this soon. You may want to count up your calories and compare to what you were doing before. I would start out only dropping 200 cals/day or so and then adjust from there based on your progress.

The other thing you can do is look at your lifting style and consider going heavy/low rep to encourage strength maintenance/muscle retention.

The bottom-line though is that you need to decide whether you want to lean up or not. If you do, in most cases you will have to accept some level of strength loss. If you can’t deal with this mentally, you’ll never make the commitment to get lean.

[quote]doubleh wrote:
Um, are all your sessions 6x3? That might be the answer right there.[/quote]

Yes.

Why?

[quote]randman wrote:
I’ll give you some “reality feedback” that I rarely see posted here on this subject. Unless you are a serious drug-assisted athlete, and even in many of those cases, you will eventually lose “some” strength on a cutting diet.

I’ve seen some people post “I’ve gained strength while cutting”, etc. I’d say in response to those: either you are taking some drugs or you are in the newbie stages of lifting still. Very, very few people will maintain all of their strength while cutting down. Your numbers may not dip much, but they will dip.

Bottom-line is that you have to get over the lifting numbers just a little bit if you want to really lean out. It has happened to me every single time I’ve cut now matter which type of parameters I’ve manipulated: lifting style (heavy/low rep, volume-focused/short rest time, etc), diet style, energy type work, etc. For me, it just comes with the territory. With that being said, every time I’ve bulked again I always end up stronger than I was during the last cycle.

The goal is to just minimize strength loss since it’s so difficult to maintain 100% of your strength when cutting. If your losing a significant amount of strength early on then you may be dropping too many calories too fast. For only losing 5 lbs in a month at your initial weight and bf %, I wouldn’t think you would be losing that much on your bench this soon. You may want to count up your calories and compare to what you were doing before. I would start out only dropping 200 cals/day or so and then adjust from there based on your progress.

The other thing you can do is look at your lifting style and consider going heavy/low rep to encourage strength maintenance/muscle retention.

The bottom-line though is that you need to decide whether you want to lean up or not. If you do, in most cases you will have to accept some level of strength loss. If you can’t deal with this mentally, you’ll never make the commitment to get lean.[/quote]

Ok, I don’t want or plan to go bellow 15% body fat. I don’t care about abs. I just want to go to 15% and build up to 20-25% again. I just don’t want to be the next Artem and completely lose my time.

I’ll add some food ans maybe a cheat meal a week and see what happen.

Thanks for your post.

Dude… At that bodyweight you shouldn’t have to be worrying about losing strength at your level.

There’s nothing wrong with 6x3, unless you are doing that for everything and thats it. I really dont know why your strength is going down. Your diet is crap if you are doing that every day, with no refeeds.

My advice. Go with a good workout program and a good diet. There are plenty on here, and i’d recommend going starting strength or Westside for fat bastards as the workout.

You should be looking to lose MORE than 5lbs in a month, and GAIN strength in the process, at your level.

[quote]dankid wrote:
Dude… At that bodyweight you shouldn’t have to be worrying about losing strength at your level.

There’s nothing wrong with 6x3, unless you are doing that for everything and thats it. I really dont know why your strength is going down. Your diet is crap if you are doing that every day, with no refeeds.

My advice. Go with a good workout program and a good diet. There are plenty on here, and i’d recommend going starting strength or Westside for fat bastards as the workout.

You should be looking to lose MORE than 5lbs in a month, and GAIN strength in the process, at your level.[/quote]

Dankid, your advice are the last thing I’m looking for serious, just pass your way and troll someone else post please.

Your pre-workout nutrition sucks.

“12h00: 1 cup of rice, 8 once of meat
16h00: 1 scoop whey in water
17h30: Workout”

You are going without carbs for 5 and a half hours before you train, and all you’re having before your training is 1 lousy scoop of protein an hour and a half prior to starting your workout.

As for your training I don’t want to start shouting ‘overtraining’ without knowing the ins and outs of your training but maybe you’re doing too much. 3 days on 1 day off is pretty tough going on a cut in my opinion, especially for a natty.

Doesn’t look like you are eating a hell of a lot. Do you have a calorie/macro breakdown of what you posted?

While I agree with randman that losing strength is often an unavoidable reality of cutting, I DO question whether or not it is to be expected when going from a quarter of your body being fat to ~15%. That is something that can be accomplished through sensible tweaking of your diet and the addition of cardio.

My guess (without bothering to do the math on your diet) is your strength/stamina dropped quickly because you lowered your calories too low, too fast.

Did you change your routine for this cut? I wouldn’t recommend it, but, if you did, it may very well explain the joint pain (not everyone is meant to go high sets/low reps, and the low calories would only exacerbate this, I would think).

[quote]Vir wrote:
Your pre-workout nutrition sucks.

“12h00: 1 cup of rice, 8 once of meat
16h00: 1 scoop whey in water
17h30: Workout”

You are going without carbs for 5 and a half hours before you train, and all you’re having before your training is 1 lousy scoop of protein an hour and a half prior to starting your workout.

[/quote]

I agree with this. You will most likely feel much better if you put some fast acting carbs just prior to training.

[quote]ALX wrote:

Dankid, your advice are the last thing I’m looking for serious, just pass your way and troll someone else post please.[/quote]

Your loss. Have fun wasting your time.

There’s no way you should be losing THAT much strength considering you only lost 5 lbs. Personally, it’d be unacceptable for me to lose that much strength for the whole 30 lbs of your cut. 255x3 to 235x3 is a huge deal.

#1) As Vir pointed out, your peri-workout nutrition is horrible. You’re not having any carbs before you train. If I did that just for a week, I’m positive all my lifts would suffer. That’s going to be the #1 culprit.

#2) Also, how many calories were you consuming before you started the diet? I’m assuming over 4000 because I’m around 240 and take in that much to maintain. I ask because you’re now at around 2300 (I plugged your diet in Fitday). That’s a huge shock to your body if you just cut calories from 4000 to 2300.

#3) Is this the same diet you use every single day? You might want to look into carb cycling and do your hardest, heaviest workouts on high carb days.

#4) Fitday tells me you only take in 250g protein. 1/2 of that from whey. Wouldn’t hurt to keep this up closer to 300.

#5) Are you doing any cardio? If so, what kind and how often?

Here’s a few Thibs articles that could be helpful. Also check out Stu’s 2 contest threads.



Good luck with the cut. I’m probably going to do a short 20-25 lbs one in March. For the record, I have dropped 5-10 lbs in the past without strength loss. I just ate all my an hour before and after my workout.

[quote]Vir wrote:
Your pre-workout nutrition sucks.

“12h00: 1 cup of rice, 8 once of meat
16h00: 1 scoop whey in water
17h30: Workout”

You are going without carbs for 5 and a half hours before you train, and all you’re having before your training is 1 lousy scoop of protein an hour and a half prior to starting your workout.

As for your training I don’t want to start shouting ‘overtraining’ without knowing the ins and outs of your training but maybe you’re doing too much. 3 days on 1 day off is pretty tough going on a cut in my opinion, especially for a natty.[/quote]

the nutrition part (your diet) really stuck out, how many calories are you consuming in a day? and are you still doing the same workout that you were doing while you were building mass?

as for your diet i think you might of had a darastic drop of calories or carbs which in return might cause your body to react and try to preserve your weight, hence that might be why you didnt lose any weight in the first week, i would think a gradually decline in caloreies would be a good idea, and as for your peri workout nutrition, it really needs to be adjusted,

just my 2 cents worth

[quote]ALX wrote:
I’m cutting for a month now and I beginning to loose strength, stamina, my joint hurt more than usually and It’s more difficult to sleep. I did probably already lose muscle. I need some help, I don’t want to mess it all.

Weight 251 lbs @ around 22-25% fat. Lost 5 pounds in a month, none in the last 1 week and half

Daily eating, no cheat meal
07h00: 2 scoop whey, 16 once milk, 1/2 cup oat, berry
12h00: 1 cup of rice, 8 once of meat
16h00: 1 scoop whey in water
17h30: Workout
19h00: 2 scoop whey in 8 once milk
19h30: 4 eggs, 2 slice of bread, some cheese

My workout schedule is 3 day on 1 off. 2 exercises by muscle group, 6 set of 3, ramping
1: Chest,Shoulders, tri
2: Back, Bi
3: Legs

My bench has drop from 255x3 for my last set to 235x2. I’m going to eat more for now and suspend the cut a little until I regain my strength.

Please give me your input, if I need to change my workout or whatever.
[/quote]

Your not working out hard enough… during your bulk or your cut. Which says alot because 251 lbs 22% bodyfat is pretty good for someone not training to intense. Actually that’s great.

Also as someone else said 6x3 isn’t that great for training, specially at your strength level.

Last but not least is milk good for you? That’s a personal question, because milk can be very good for gains but it doesn’t work well with everybodies body. Have you been drinking it all your life?

Not to long ago an author on here addressed this in an article, he said to do 3-4 sets of near max effort for that days muscle group then do your cardio or cutting sets.

Example. say it is chest day, dont just go into the gym and work with youre lighter load for high reps with no heavy work.Start out with heavy presses like you would during a bulk then do your high reps stuff.This way youre still recruiting HMU and stimulating the muscle.

Ditto to what most people are posting, you seem to really be messing something up. Your diet looks like crap and I can’t believe how much strength you have lost so far. I’m currently on day 26 of a cut, and I am down 10lbs from 222 to 212.

Despite what randman says can and can’t happen, I have actually gained some strength on the cut so far, but this could be due to a few reasons I have floating around. Albeit, I am not very strong by any means, but my incline bb bench has gone from up from 3x7 @ 200 to 3x7 @ 205, and my flat bb bench has gone from 3x6 @ 250 to 3x7 @ 255. Certain other lifts have gone up as well. Seems that you needto fix something quick.

Your nutrition is very bad. You’re not eating enough. I’m 206 lbs and cutting right now, and I’m losing weight eating 2750 Kcals a day: 320g pro, 150g fat, 30g carbs.

This article should help you a lot. Gives a perfect outline for dieting, as well as the training;

Here’s a guide to troponin style carb cycling if you don’t do well on a keto diet;

Hope it helps.

LR

[quote]ALX wrote:

[quote]dankid wrote:
Dude… At that bodyweight you shouldn’t have to be worrying about losing strength at your level.

There’s nothing wrong with 6x3, unless you are doing that for everything and thats it. I really dont know why your strength is going down. Your diet is crap if you are doing that every day, with no refeeds.

My advice. Go with a good workout program and a good diet. There are plenty on here, and i’d recommend going starting strength or Westside for fat bastards as the workout.

You should be looking to lose MORE than 5lbs in a month, and GAIN strength in the process, at your level.[/quote]

Dankid, your advice are the last thing I’m looking for serious, just pass your way and troll someone else post please.[/quote]

Lol to be honest, his advice wasn’t that bad.

He doesn’t know dick about bodybuilding but it doesn’t really sound like your looking for bodybuilding advice anyway.

Thanks all for answering me, I really appreciate it.

Many people ask about training:
I did trained this way for an entire years. Always ramping to heavy set, never more than 5 reps by set ans it gave me great results. In fact, 8-12 rep by set do not seems to work with me. In any case, I did not change the way I train for my cut.

I’m eating around 3000 calorie each day right now, around 270 gram of protein, 225 gram of carbs. When gaining I was eating 4000+ (up to 6000 calorie 2-3 day weekly)

It looks like what really suck is pre-workout nutrition. When gaining, I was eating a chunky soup whit 1-2 cup of rice in it, almost 1000 calories pre.

I’m back in my gaining phase to regain my strength since this morning. Once all right, I will look to add 500 calorie pre-workout (protein + carb) and aim for 3500-3700 calorie a day and see what happen.

What do you think guys? Let me know, any help here is really appreciated, except Dankid.

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

Lol to be honest, his advice wasn’t that bad.

He doesn’t know dick about bodybuilding but it doesn’t really sound like your looking for bodybuilding advice anyway. [/quote]

Maybe, but reading Dankid post for advice is like looking for food in a bin, maybe even money in a bin.

I got your point, I’m looking more for bodykeeping advice :slight_smile: