T Nation

Losing Juice During Workouts

#1

I'm in the middle of my split right now going over my numbers (i'm not a strong nor big guy) but I'm doing a Chest/Back split today and only doing 4 main exercises for each group (i know back should be more but i'm limited in equipment).

Anyway on my last exercise for chest I just completely lose my juice.

What I did today in this order:
Flat Bench (3-0-1 Pace)
50lbs x 15 (warmup)
70 x 10
110 x 8
110 x 7
130 x 3

Flys (3-0-1 Pace)
10lb x 15 (warmup)
20 x 10
20 x 10
30 x 10
30 x 8

Dumbell Pullover (3-0-1 Pace)
10lb x 15 (warmup)
20 x 10
20 x 10
30 x 10
30 x 10 (to fail)

Incline Press (3-0-1 Pace)
70 x 7
I tried to do more about a minute and a half after this but I couldn't even get the bar up!!!

2 questions:
Is there anything I can change in this routine to make it better while keeping the same workouts (such as rep pace, weights stacks, or sets?)

and

Since this is a chest workout should a bench press warmup set be suitable for the other workouts (i.e. only do a bench press warmup and no other warmups such as my flys and pullovers)

#2

First I would ask what are you eating before working out. Second Go to a sporting goods shop or even walmart and spend 20 bucks on a pull up bar. Doing chins and pull up will make a world of a difference on your numbers. It also looks to be very chest dominate thus the getting dead at the end doing incline press.

Also how many days a week do you work out? MWF?or something different? Check out some of the articles about push/pull splits and also Total body training is a great way to put on solid mass when you have less time and is kind of hard to mess up program wise. Compound lifts are your friend so keep that in mind and get a pull up bar.

I hope that helped.

#3

I don’t mean to be rude. It’s my intent at all. But you should consider getting stronger on the average beginner’s routine before atempting a split like you have layed out. madcows 5x5, stronglifts 5x5, and ripps are all great programs. I highly suggest you start with one of them asap.

Not only will you see better progress, you might be able to build up your endurance during your training sessions to the point where attempting such a split will be feasable.

#4

[quote]Joebus wrote:
First I would ask what are you eating before working out. Second Go to a sporting goods shop or even walmart and spend 20 bucks on a pull up bar. Doing chins and pull up will make a world of a difference on your numbers. It also looks to be very chest dominate thus the getting dead at the end doing incline press.

Also how many days a week do you work out? MWF?or something different? Check out some of the articles about push/pull splits and also Total body training is a great way to put on solid mass when you have less time and is kind of hard to mess up program wise. Compound lifts are your friend so keep that in mind and get a pull up bar.

I hope that helped.[/quote]

I’ve been reading articles left and right and there are so many different ways to “start” when I was in high school I was primarily leg dominant (12 years of Soccer, 4 of track).

This is my first day back to a steady routine in about 4 months currently I planned on doing MWF, but it seems to be more conducive to my schedule to do isolation exercises for 4 days (specific muscle groups) then on a 5th day do core exercises, rest 2 days (while doing HIIT).

I’ll look into getting a pullup bar station for outside or the basement (old house with nice wood frames don’t want to ruin).

#5

[quote]zephead4747 wrote:
I don’t mean to be rude. It’s my intent at all. But you should consider getting stronger on the average beginner’s routine before atempting a split like you have layed out. madcows 5x5, stronglifts 5x5, and ripps are all great programs. I highly suggest you start with one of them asap.

Not only will you see better progress, you might be able to build up your endurance during your training sessions to the point where attempting such a split will be feasable.[/quote]

No worries i’m up for critique. I was looking at madcows for awhile for core strength and all around gains but I’m a little leary of doing squats (i have no means of doing them safely at home).

I might do a slightly different program where m-th i do isolation exercises then on fridays i’ll do compound exercises, 2 days of rest then reevaluate my progress on the next week.

#6

These are my training thoughts:

  1. Too many reps in your warmup, increases fatigue
  2. Time your rests, to gauge whether you are taking too long, or not enough
  3. Drink a Carb/Protein drink during training
  4. Focus on Flat OR Incline press, not both

The bottom line is your are…
a. Taking too long to do your workout
b. Not getting enough pre energy calories
c. Not resting enough
d. Resting too much

#7

[quote]yasser wrote:
These are my training thoughts:

  1. Too many reps in your warmup, increases fatigue
  2. Time your rests, to gauge whether you are taking too long, or not enough
  3. Drink a Carb/Protein drink during training
  4. Focus on Flat OR Incline press, not both

The bottom line is your are…
a. Taking too long to do your workout
b. Not getting enough pre energy calories
c. Not resting enough
d. Resting too much
[/quote]

My rests between sets is from 60s - 90s no longer than 2 minutes. Between exercises is about 3-5 minutes. I can cut down the warmup reps or lighten the weight… that’s easy. I drink a whey protein shake before, during, and after (basically a large tub of water with whey for pre-during-post). Next time I do chest I’ll just limit it to flat bench for now. I was just trying to hit all aspects of the muscle I guess I just got fatigued to early.

Thanks yasser, I’ll tweak my plan.

#8

[quote]mpenix wrote:
zephead4747 wrote:
I don’t mean to be rude. It’s my intent at all. But you should consider getting stronger on the average beginner’s routine before atempting a split like you have layed out. madcows 5x5, stronglifts 5x5, and ripps are all great programs. I highly suggest you start with one of them asap.

Not only will you see better progress, you might be able to build up your endurance during your training sessions to the point where attempting such a split will be feasable.

No worries i’m up for critique. I was looking at madcows for awhile for core strength and all around gains but I’m a little leary of doing squats (i have no means of doing them safely at home).

I might do a slightly different program where m-th i do isolation exercises then on fridays i’ll do compound exercises, 2 days of rest then reevaluate my progress on the next week.

[/quote]

front squats will work. clean the bar into position and lift.

#9

[quote]mpenix wrote:

Since this is a chest workout should a bench press warmup set be suitable for the other workouts (i.e. only do a bench press warmup and no other warmups such as my flys and pullovers)

[/quote]

Personally I do a quick warmup set for each exercise but thats just me

#10

yasser’s post sais it all for the “getting tired during workout” question

#11

I would suggest ditching the fly’s. It isnt a very good chest movement and it can lend itself to injury easily and same with the flat bench. Heck, ditch the pullovers as well. Your rest between sets seems fine, but I wouldnt wait as long inbetween exercises. Just focus on pressing. Machines and dumbells are best.

I would ditch the protein during your workout as well. Consuming whey during your workout can draw water to your gut and make you feel sluggish. Just focus on protein before and drink carbs during your workout.

#12

[quote]jdrannin1 wrote:
I would suggest ditching the fly’s. It isnt a very good chest movement and it can lend itself to injury easily and same with the flat bench. Heck, ditch the pullovers as well. Your rest between sets seems fine, but I wouldnt wait as long inbetween exercises. Just focus on pressing. Machines and dumbells are best.

I would ditch the protein during your workout as well. Consuming whey during your workout can draw water to your gut and make you feel sluggish. Just focus on protein before and drink carbs during your workout.
[/quote]

Thanks, no machines to use but dumbells only up to 35lbs, and barbell weights up to 175 (more than enough for me now). I can’t imagine just doing one exercise for chest… in any case I’ve been reading the Starr’s 5x5’s (aka madcows) and I’m reworking my schedule around that base. I took photos earlier today that I’ll post up when I get home… I guess I’ll start a log :slight_smile:

#13

[quote]mpenix wrote:
I was looking at madcows for awhile for core strength and all around gains but I’m a little leary of doing squats (i have no means of doing them safely at home).[/quote]

Raise the barbell on blocks. Add weight in it’s highets position. Step under it, and walk out of your improvised squat rack.

Oh, and you’re not leg dominant because of soccer and track. Not sure if you fall into this category, but some people consider running to be ‘leg training’. And it is, in the sense that they’re doing a million single-leg quarter squats. But in the sense of being strong, no, it’s not training (for strength).

Four days of isolation exercises followed by a final compound day sounds like a horrible idea. Here’s why:

  1. You’re weak, and isolation exercises won’t develop strength.
  2. Isolation exercises will consume muscle glycogen, and prevent strength adaptation (because you’re not doing exercises to get stronger)
    3)by the time you get to do the compound lifting, you will be tired and most likely sore from lifting the previous four days.

By ‘stronger’ I mean ‘able to move more than 175 lbs in an appreaciable manner’ (squat, deadlift, bench press, clean, jerk, snatch, row).

Isolation exercises won’t get you there.

I recommend rippetoes or madcows.