Looting...

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Uncle Gabby wrote:
I should add that if I ever had to loot essentials, it would only be in a SHTF scenario, [/quote]

Okay are we talking looting for survival or looting for looting’s sake here?

Because I don’t know if the two situations are comparable. Maybe I just don’t like the use of the word looting to describe survival situation, even though it might be the correct word.
[/quote]

I did say essentials. Taking a stereo or big screen TV would never be acceptable. Now, I would still consider taking food and water to be looting, because in our age of plenty there is really no excuse to not have a few weeks worth of food and water put aside for an emergency. If you don’t have food and water put aside, but own a big screen TV and a relatively new vehicle then I have no sympathy for you if you get shot trying to loot what you need. On the other hand we’re none of us perfect, and I understand people doing what they must to survive, but it is still looting.

I have enough put aside to feed myself for probably 3 months, (not counting food in the freezer) and I have drinking water pretty well covered. My problem is I would also have to feed my parents, maybe my brother and sister, possibly my neighbors. As long as I had a bite to eat I wouldn’t let my neighbor’s little girl starve. So really I have about two weeks worth of food. By the time that’s gone I expect Walmart’s been picked clean.

This is a good thread by the way, really makes you think.

[quote]tsantos wrote:

What’s next? Circumstances where you’d rape?

[/quote]

Wouldn’t this depend on the hotness of the potential victim?
Scarlett Johansen vs Rosie O’Donell?

Just puttin this out there, whenever the apocalypse happens resulting in a total collapse of the government, me and a few of my buddies already have a pact to get mohawks, tatoos, and create a Mad Max biker gang. You all are totally welcome to join. We’re just gonna ride around stealing people’s shit, taking their women, and selling their kids into slavery. Should be a pretty awesome time. Also a huge plus if you have like a blade boomerang you could bring along. We definitely need a blade boomerang guy.

Definitely a difference between looting and scavenging. Putting them in context, scavenging is acceptable while looting is reprehensible.

My area was hit pretty hard during Hurricane Sandy. I don’t know of anyone starving but water had to be boiled and gas was difficult, but no impossible to get. I remember going to get gas before the gas situation was figured out (by license plates). There was only 1 gas station with electricity out of the 5 or 6 in my immediate area. It was chaos. No order, lots of shouting, arguing, and horns. Took almost two hours with less than a dozen cars in front of me…by the time I left, the lines that formed were ridiculous. And that was just for gas…something you can live without. Scared the shit out of me.

The local grocery store was open after a day or two but several gas stations, and most of my side of town, didn’t have electricity for almost a full week. I remember county roads having mile-long backups on the shoulders just to get to gas stations. NOBODY was riding bikes or walking anywhere. Frickin’ gas is like this country’s blood.

[quote]alpha_mike wrote:
Definitely a difference between looting and scavenging. Putting them in context, scavenging is acceptable while looting is reprehensible.

My area was hit pretty hard during Hurricane Sandy. I don’t know of anyone starving but water had to be boiled and gas was difficult, but no impossible to get. I remember going to get gas before the gas situation was figured out (by license plates). There was only 1 gas station with electricity out of the 5 or 6 in my immediate area. It was chaos. No order, lots of shouting, arguing, and horns. Took almost two hours with less than a dozen cars in front of me…by the time I left, the lines that formed were ridiculous. And that was just for gas…something you can live without. Scared the shit out of me.

The local grocery store was open after a day or two but several gas stations, and most of my side of town, didn’t have electricity for almost a full week. I remember county roads having mile-long backups on the shoulders just to get to gas stations. NOBODY was riding bikes or walking anywhere. Frickin’ gas is like this country’s blood.[/quote]

You are giving me Katrina flashbacks and I don’t like it.

Looting during a riot is just a criminal act. Looting (or scavenging) after a SHTF scenario is not going to be without it’s challenges either. The competition for resources will be fierce. There are many people with the attitude that they will be able to just “take” what they need. This will probably not work out very well for them as a long term strategy. Most “preppers” understand they need to stock up on bandaids, beans AND bullets…

The most under appreciated item and often overlooked is water. If the SHTF, clean potable water will be your biggest concern. When the workers stop showing up at the water treatment plant and sewage overflows into the water supply, things will get interesting. Having several water filtration/purification strategies as well as several weeks of drinking water already stored would be the best investment for most people. Seriously, you need to get your water situation handled. Food is easy, CLEAN water - not so much.

Also, have a jar of menthol camphor on hand. The SMELL of shit and decomposing bodies will prevent many people from going to certain places where you may be able to forage. It will be interesting.

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

The most under appreciated item and often overlooked is water…

The SMELL of shit…

[/quote]

Thank you.

I love how everyone wants to talk about guns, knives, bats, and swinging chains while riding a motorcycle.

Human waste and garbage stink. If there’s no garbage man and you can’t flush the toliet…yeah.

Water. For beyond drinking. For cooking. For cleaning. How much water to wash a couple articles of clothing by hand? Or, would you rather bathe? Or, would you rather cook with it? Watch how fast a gallon disapears.

That week I mentioned during Sandy, when we had to boil water…it tastes gross after you do that. Flat. That was tap water through a Brita filter. Go gather some outdoor water…be it from a puddle, stream, pond or even rain water. Clean it, then drink it. See how that works out for you.

But, by all means, get your Mad Max thing going.

[quote]alpha_mike wrote:

But, by all means, get your Mad Max thing going. [/quote]

I’m pretty sure the comment made earlier here referencing Mad Max was a joke.

I’m not trying to argue water isn’t important, it obviously is, but so is everything really. There will be those that are prepared and die, and those unprepared that live. Ability to adapt and think outside the box will.

One person’s guns allows them to venture out and scavenge off the dead. And the 12 rounds of 556 they bring back will have more value in barter than in defense. People will have to work together in absence of Rule of Law. If all anyone was prepped for was a month’s worth of water, and a Motorcycle “club” comes along and takes it, wtf good was it?

You know what I’m saying? Water considerations should be paramount yes, but don’t neglect broader needs as some do the water.

[quote]csulli wrote:
Just puttin this out there, whenever the apocalypse happens resulting in a total collapse of the government, me and a few of my buddies already have a pact to get mohawks, tatoos, and create a Mad Max biker gang. You all are totally welcome to join. We’re just gonna ride around stealing people’s shit, taking their women, and selling their kids into slavery. Should be a pretty awesome time. Also a huge plus if you have like a blade boomerang you could bring along. We definitely need a blade boomerang guy.[/quote]

How about just a blade samurai guy, a la warrior chick from Walking Dead?

I’ve wired low voltage DC / solar systems and installed generators in several “off grid locations” for a few different “survival minded” organizations. You’d be surprised at how different some of the “strategies” are. Some are well thought out, while others are downright scary. The Mad Max biker gang idea is actually not very far-fetched… That isn’t to say that EVERY biker gang will be raiders - some will be defending their territory FROM raiders. Being part a group of like minded people is a far better strategy than being a “loner”. Having a legitimate skill set is far more valuable than just stockpiling food/equipment. Someone can always take your food, but they cant take your ability to be useful…

[quote]angry chicken wrote:
I’ve wired low voltage DC / solar systems and installed generators in several “off grid locations” for a few different “survival minded” organizations. You’d be surprised at how different some of the “strategies” are. Some are well thought out, while others are downright scary. The Mad Max biker gang idea is actually not very far-fetched… That isn’t to say that EVERY biker gang will be raiders - some will be defending their territory FROM raiders. Being part a group of like minded people is a far better strategy than being a “loner”. Having a legitimate skill set is far more valuable than just stockpiling food/equipment. Someone can always take your food, but they cant take your ability to be useful… [/quote]

Survivalistboards makes for some interesting reading. Most there seem like decent, intelligent people. I’m not a prepper myself, don’t have the time or storage space. But there’s still a lot one can learn. I’ve written some stuff down in a notebook. If you wait til you need it, it’ll be too late to look it up on the internet.

[quote]Uncle Gabby wrote:
This is a good thread by the way, really makes you think.[/quote]

Thanks

Just to clarify what I meant by looting. I am talking about going into a business during am event and taking merchandise without paying for it.

Some people obviously would loot during a protest. Some people will try to get protesters amped up to cause chaos so they can start looting.
I don’t agree that those type of situations justify looting.

A major SHTF scenario takes place I would not hesitate to looting a walmart, bass pro shops, or other corporations to get essentials for survival. If it was a mom and pop store I would do my best to avoid it, barter with them if they were present.

For instance in Iraq, if those minorities who were fleeing had a walmart on the way up that mountain, would anyone condemn for looting it on their exodus to get supplies to live off of and their loved ones to live of off?

Being prepared at home is a very smart move. What if a disaster occurs while you and your love ones are away from home? You have no way of getting access to your home. Do you justify looting now?

I think we can all agree that there is a situation that could occur that would justify looting

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Now ask the question of what happens when you come and try looting my place under any circumstances. Any.[/quote]

Double Barrel = Double Thumbs Up

Looting is ok only when a black guy gets shot by a while cop in St. Louis. Then it is perfectly ok to loot stores and take stereos, tvs, and any other electronic equipment that they really need.

beans - Wasn’t trying to start a semantic argument to sound superior, I was basically parroting some stuff I have read in various survivalist-type publications. But I do feel there is a difference between the two words, even if that is just your own personal gut reaction to the word being used.

strungoutboy - you must be too young to recall the Rodney King riots in LA, or basically anytime certain people felt slighted and took to the streets in order to destroy a bunch of other people’s property and upgrade their own personal entertainment systems. THAT is looting, gathering (yes, stealing) what you need to survive in a SHTF scenario is scavenging.

[quote]boatguy wrote:
beans - Wasn’t trying to start a semantic argument to sound superior, I was basically parroting some stuff I have read in various survivalist-type publications. But I do feel there is a difference between the two words, even if that is just your own personal gut reaction to the word being used.

strungoutboy - you must be too young to recall the Rodney King riots in LA, or basically anytime certain people felt slighted and took to the streets in order to destroy a bunch of other people’s property and upgrade their own personal entertainment systems. THAT is looting, gathering (yes, stealing) what you need to survive in a SHTF scenario is scavenging.[/quote]
I’m not too young to not know about that. I know about Rodney King. I was just being sarcastic about all the people in St Louis that are doing it right now. Looting is pretty stupid if you ask me. Like others said, scavenging is different and would be ok if serious times of distress. I feel that a major catastrophe like an earthquake that would be many businesses and places like red cross who would step in to help people in dire need. I only see earthquake because that would be the most likely scenario in southern California. That or I guess the Russians bombing us.

[quote]strungoutboy21 wrote:

[quote]boatguy wrote:
beans - Wasn’t trying to start a semantic argument to sound superior, I was basically parroting some stuff I have read in various survivalist-type publications. But I do feel there is a difference between the two words, even if that is just your own personal gut reaction to the word being used.

strungoutboy - you must be too young to recall the Rodney King riots in LA, or basically anytime certain people felt slighted and took to the streets in order to destroy a bunch of other people’s property and upgrade their own personal entertainment systems. THAT is looting, gathering (yes, stealing) what you need to survive in a SHTF scenario is scavenging.[/quote]
I’m not too young to not know about that. I know about Rodney King. I was just being sarcastic about all the people in St Louis that are doing it right now. Looting is pretty stupid if you ask me. Like others said, scavenging is different and would be ok if serious times of distress. I feel that a major catastrophe like an earthquake that would be many businesses and places like red cross who would step in to help people in dire need. I only see earthquake because that would be the most likely scenario in southern California. That or I guess the Russians bombing us.[/quote]

Yeah, I don’t really get the whole rioting and looting thing. I remember living in College Park, MD and every time the Terps played Duke - WIN OR LOSE, they would riot. One year they set shit on fire and flipped over cop cars… Over a fucking basketball game. Boggles my little brain.

[quote]alpha_mike wrote:
Frickin’ gas is like this country’s blood.[/quote]

running out of gas worries me more than running out of water. If the price of fuel increases to $10+ per gallon it would result in chaos for American society, we’re totally fucked if we run out in any given area.

Also, rioting is ok when the police shoot someone who happens to not be white. Because the race card, yadda yadda and whatever else gives people a reason to steal TV’s and stereos, and destroy THEIR OWN communities.