T Nation

Looting...


#1

I think most people can imagine a situation where looting is acceptable. Are there any posters who disagree with this statement?

When does looting become an acceptable act for you?

Do you look at looting differently based on locations targeted? (Walmart vs mom and pop store)


#2

[quote]mbdix wrote:
I think most people can imagine a situation where looting is acceptable. Are there any posters who disagree with this statement?

When does looting become an acceptable act for you?

Do you look at looting differently based on locations targeted? (Walmart vs mom and pop store)[/quote]

Off the top of my head, short of some SHTF zombie apocalypse, I would say looting is never a moral choice. Unfortunately, I would imagine it’s acceptable by many.


#3

[quote]mbdix wrote:
I think most people can imagine a situation where looting is acceptable. Are there any posters who disagree with this statement?

[/quote]

I’m pretty sure I disagree, a lot actually.


#4

I regard pillaging as better than looting. To the victor go the spoils. Looting is taking someone’s property when they’re not around.

I understand taking food and water from a Walmart that has been closed for a week and is unlikely to re-open any time soon. The rightful owners (the shareholders) aren’t around to accept payment, and will likely be compensated by their insurance anyway. The owners of a mom & pop store likely live close by, and would be available to accept payment. Or mom & pop may decide to keep the food and water all for themselves in the case of a long term disaster, which is their right.


#5

I should add that if I ever had to loot essentials, it would only be in a SHTF scenario, and if things ever returned to normalcy I would attempt to compensate the rightful owners.


#6

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]mbdix wrote:
I think most people can imagine a situation where looting is acceptable. Are there any posters who disagree with this statement?

[/quote]

I’m pretty sure I disagree, a lot actually.

[/quote]

What about some type of natural disaster, huge power outage and you are running low on food, water, medicine or pedialyte for your kid?


#7

I wouldn’t loot for a stereo or whatever. Essentials being the only circumstance I think but:

I recently bought 5 days worth of water and canned food to last a while. I have a water tank with water which can be used for purposes outside of drinking.

I have a portable power generator and some diesel for it.

I have stuff to keep warm and clean with, a huge first aide kit and items to protect myself.

I assume all essential stuff available for looting would be gone after a week anyway, I can’t see the circumstances where I’d loot.

Hrmm, I feel compelled to mention that I don’t have a bomb shelter or a panic room.

What’s next? Circumstances where you’d rape?


#8

[quote]Uncle Gabby wrote:
I should add that if I ever had to loot essentials, it would only be in a SHTF scenario, [/quote]

Okay are we talking looting for survival or looting for looting’s sake here?

Because I don’t know if the two situations are comparable. Maybe I just don’t like the use of the word looting to describe survival situation, even though it might be the correct word.


#9

[quote]xXSeraphimXx wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]mbdix wrote:
I think most people can imagine a situation where looting is acceptable. Are there any posters who disagree with this statement?

[/quote]

I’m pretty sure I disagree, a lot actually.

[/quote]

What about some type of natural disaster, huge power outage and you are running low on food, water, medicine or pedialyte for your kid?

[/quote]

That is kinda what I’m getting at with the UG reply.

Are we talking about foraging in order to survive, or looting?


#10

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Uncle Gabby wrote:
I should add that if I ever had to loot essentials, it would only be in a SHTF scenario, [/quote]

Okay are we talking looting for survival or looting for looting’s sake here?

Because I don’t know if the two situations are comparable. Maybe I just don’t like the use of the word looting to describe survival situation, even though it might be the correct word.
[/quote]

That’s part of what I am wanting to see discussed.

If I was ever in a situation where looting would be an acceptable action I would hope and pray that everyone else were taking shoes, TV’s and “cool” shit, so I could be collecting things needed for survival more easily.

There is no possible way that looting would ever be an acceptable action for you to take?


#11

[quote]Uncle Gabby wrote:
I should add that if I ever had to loot essentials, it would only be in a SHTF scenario, and if things ever returned to normalcy I would attempt to compensate the rightful owners.[/quote]

My approach as well.

I would take it a step further though. I would be more willing to loot a Walmart in SHTF scenario, and would try to barter with a Mom and Pop store.


#12

[quote]mbdix wrote:

There is no possible way that looting would ever be an acceptable action for you to take?[/quote]

My immediate response is no, it will never be acceptable. However that is said from the comfort of Rule of Law in one of the most prosperous areas of the most prosperous countries in the world; where we face greater threats of assumed temporary Martial Law (were the government will bring us what we need) more than we do from total social and economic breakdown that brings about a SHTF situation.

SO in reality, I don’t know the honest answer to your question and I need to think more.

I’d like to think I’ll never resort to stealing or using violence to take from another, but I’ve never been that hungry or desperate before, so I guess I can’t be certain.


#13

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]mbdix wrote:

There is no possible way that looting would ever be an acceptable action for you to take?[/quote]

My immediate response is no, it will never be acceptable. However that is said from the comfort of Rule of Law in one of the most prosperous areas of the most prosperous countries in the world; where we face greater threats of assumed temporary Martial Law (were the government will bring us what we need) more than we do from total social and economic breakdown that brings about a SHTF situation.

SO in reality, I don’t know the honest answer to your question and I need to think more.

I’d like to think I’ll never resort to stealing or using violence to take from another, but I’ve never been that hungry or desperate before, so I guess I can’t be certain. [/quote]

I can respect that, and understand. I am glad this thread gave you something that you have to think on for a little bit.

If it takes you a long time to come to a point where looting would in fact be acceptable to you? You wouldn’t have to worry about making that decision to actually do it. Because, everything would already be gone from the stores. Ha


#14

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]mbdix wrote:

There is no possible way that looting would ever be an acceptable action for you to take?[/quote]

My immediate response is no, it will never be acceptable. However that is said from the comfort of Rule of Law in one of the most prosperous areas of the most prosperous countries in the world; where we face greater threats of assumed temporary Martial Law (were the government will bring us what we need) more than we do from total social and economic breakdown that brings about a SHTF situation.

SO in reality, I don’t know the honest answer to your question and I need to think more.

I’d like to think I’ll never resort to stealing or using violence to take from another, but I’ve never been that hungry or desperate before, so I guess I can’t be certain. [/quote]

Never is a long time and rules out lots and lots of scenarios.


#15

We’re basically arguing the difference between looting and scavenging. Looting being rioters taking the opportunity to upgrade their home entertainment system, scavenging being a SHTF scenario and you are grabbing whatever food is left on the shelves of a deserted store. Or out of a vehicle on the side of the road that was ambushed by someone else (just to throw in another example).

I would never loot, but scavenging is another story entirely. I agree with Uncle Gabby though, if the owners were present I would attempt to barter, and after normalcy returned I would attempt to provide compensation for what I took. And while scavenging from either a Wal-Mart type chain or a mom & pop are both technically stealing, the large faceless corporation makes it easier to take from versus the small general store where you’ve seen Bob & Myrtle working since you were a little kid. Besides, the bigger chains (if you get in early enough) are more likely to have more and better selection.


#16

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.


#17

[quote]mbdix wrote:
If it takes you a long time to come to a point where looting would in fact be acceptable to you? You wouldn’t have to worry about making that decision to actually do it. Because, everything would already be gone from the stores. Ha[/quote]

I guess I just don’t see a SHTF scenario going down this smoothly.

The poorer neighborhoods would be a war zone well before the neighborhood I live in would be, and trading $25 worth of ammo to e neighbor for $1 worth of rice will be more likely than anything.

By the time the looting and violence made its way into my neighborhood, it would be organized and deadly gangs. By day 7-10 I imagine the wave of intense violence would be over and then forward just intermittent waves.

That would be when I would venture out of my immediate surroundings, if I didn’t bug out in the first place.

[quote]jjackkrash wrote:

Never is a long time and rules out lots and lots of scenarios.
[/quote]

lol, right.

That’s why I tried to put a whole bunch of conditional language in my post to basically say its very easy to sit here in the relative lap of luxury and ride my high horse.


#18

[quote]boatguy wrote:
We’re basically arguing the difference between looting and scavenging. [/quote]

Thank you, scavenging is a much better word.

I would certainly scavenge… Not so much loot.

:wink:

Semantics: making people feel morally superior since the dawn of rhetoric.


#19

I am fairly certain I would not loot a Walmart store and take a bunch of cheap Chinese shit under any circumstance. Now, really looting Walmart. That shows a little more ambition. But nothing like the real fucking looters who really know how to loot.

http://metrotimesng.com/2014/06/liechtenstein-returns-227m-abacha-loot-on-june-25/

https://wikileaks.org/wiki/Hiding_Africa’s_Looted_Funds:_The_Silence_of_Western_Media

https://wikileaks.org/wiki/The_looting_of_Kenya_under_President_Moi


#20

[quote]mbdix wrote:
I think most people can imagine a situation where looting is acceptable. Are there any posters who disagree with this statement?
[/quote]

Depends what you mean. “Looting” implies a breakdown in public order and thieves taking advantage. That’s not the same as someone taking food because they’re hungry.

Never. I would not use the term “looting” to describe a morally justifiable theft.

[quote]

Do you look at looting differently based on locations targeted? (Walmart vs mom and pop store)[/quote]

Of course not. Who would?