T Nation

Looking to Start My First Cycle

Damn lookin good for 134, especiallly as a natty

But still:

Bro, just eat for real for a few months and you’ll put on some mass. You clearly know how to maintain muscle while cutting, so you you can always shred it down later natty. I personally wouldnt’

I appreciate all of this feedback, but I think there are some misunderstandings.

I used to bulk and cut a bit, and eventually really struggled and got pretty fat, and this was just from dieting alone. It takes a lot of consecutive days to train my mind to really nail a cut, but then it’s smooth sailing.

But, considering I’ve been really good recently at cutting, I’d like to stay in a good rhythm and honestly never go above 11% BF again.

Also, I’m not totally against injectables – if T is safe because of its long history and usage, I’m not against it. Probably looking to run something for 6 weeks, a short cycle in looking to get somewhere around 142-150.

Define “safe”. You’re young, so shutting down your natural test production for something you can achieve naturally on your own, is a risk and a silly one in my opinion. You run the risk of infertility issues, low testosterone issues. Most people do recover, however there are plenty of stories of young kids struggling to recover. Why take that risk when you can put on muscle without it?

Get the notion of BF% out of your head, it’s a pointless number, seriously. I remember I was the same way at your age, however I personally feel like I look better now between 12-15% than I did at 7/8%. That’s all personal preference, however staying under 11% AND rapidly gaining muscle might not be easy. What’s the harm in eating a bit surplus, gaining a good amount of muscle, then leaning out to your desired look?

Numbers are silly, and body fat percentages seem to almost never be accurate. I used to swear by dexascans, however my last few of me questioning that. It seems as though bod pods are the only truly accurate form. So you’ll be chasing a number that is subjective to say the least.


Seconding what you are saying. I would much rather be 200+ at 15% BF than 165-170 at 8%. I want to be a large individual, not a small defined one. I guess to each their own, but I don’t understand it.


I thought ladies loved shredded abs, come to find out, only the immature teeny boppers dig that. Real women dig a MAN, and a MAN body. I’m right there with ya. I wanna be 210-215 at 5’10, and will gladly be 13-15% at that size.


Those tests aren’t accurate by any means. For reference you should look at those who are actually in that BF range. Off my head I think Helmut Strebl was regarded as the most shredded man at around 3-4%. I don’t see you anywhere near that kind of shredded. Competitive bodybuilders on gear and diuretics compete higher than you think you are natty. Again you look really good for your weight and leanness just trying to say you aren’t where you think you are in the BF percentage.

You’re not going to put on 10lbs of muscle in six weeks. Period. Guys run cycles for twice as long and end up with that kind of gain after pct. Six weeks is far too short for your goal. Muscle growth takes time, steroids or not. If you’re serious about running a cycle then you should commit to something longer simply because that’s what works the best.

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This is incredibly, disgustingly, awesomely true. Plus, it’s more fun to be able to eat more freely. Currently 5’9 at 200 and more toward 18% and am happier with how I look now than ever. So’s my wife, so there’s that sweet little advantage.

But I do have to second what everyone else is saying, you haven’t maxed out your potential natty. And trying to keep your BF that low at all times, wouldn’t that have a negative effect on your hormones regardless of gear use or not? Divorcing yourself from an obsession with your BF% would probably do you a lot of good mentally and would lead to better progress overall - whether you decide to use or not.

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hit me up when in Aberdeen my man, if you have any spare time, it’s my home.

sounds cool. We can try. Thru the forum?

Anything to see/do in Aberdeen? I scheduled it so we could see something other than Edinburgh.

We’ll be there May 24 and 25th. Just look for the lost Americans trying to drive on the right side of the road :joy:

you can give me an email if you like when you’re in Edinburgh so I can ensure my schedule is free.

well you may dislike all the grey, we are the granite city after all! The Maritime Museum is cool, we have a lot of history at the harbour and entry is free. As is the Tolbooth Museum which is on our main shopping street, it used to be a prison so it’s pretty cool. If you have a car I’d recommend taking an hour to go to Balmedie beach, the dunes are beautiful and there is a good walking trail.

Thank you!

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Why would you do blood work two weeks into a cycle? Why estrogen 20-45? Elaborate

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I would wait 2 weeks because i want to see the side effects, is there any sides at all. I don’t want to kill my estrogen unnecessarily.

As for the 20-40 i got it from derek.

But you’d be basing that off levels before they normalize. Derek needs to join T-nation.

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Two weeks into a cycle isn’t long enough for your blood work to tell you much, unless it’s comprised of all short esters. And having a target e2 number in mind ahead of time is in no way useful on a first cycle. Once someone has some data to tell them what levels feel good/bad, they can sketch out a range that they’d like to stay in. But for a first timer there’s no way that they’ll know what’s best by simply writing down a random number and trying to achieve it. My e2 is at 45 while on trt and I feel good. If I were using a test dose 4x higher and shooting for an e2 of 30 (in the middle of your 20-40 range) I would feel like total shit. I know this because I have lots of information and experience. Nobody has such experience on their first cycle. Giving out arbitrary numbers and assuming they work for everyone is wildly unscientific.


So there’s an optimal ratio for test to e2 ?

dude you look fucking SICK. great shape and muscle bellies

I’d reccomend 300mg Test per week + ~50mg anavar for your first 4 weeks

Contrary to popular belief you don’t need 500mg of test to grow at your size. The anavar will help you get nasty pumps and keep a more lean look when bulking

Plus it looks like u might be predisposed to mpb so a higher dose of a test puts you at higher risk; just keep an eye on that

as a side note, how hard is it for you to maintain that level of leaness you have?

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I don’t know if there’s an optimal range per se, but I think the variation between each person is enough to warrant not setting a goal number in mind until someone has a good enough data set to make that call.

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I still think he’s a bit too young to start.
There’s no need to rush, train 3 more years natural, then take a look.

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