Looking for Training Guidance

[sharkOnesie]

I started training in a martial art last year (bjj) at a local MMA gym. I have not been in months due to work and injuries and have been really slow picking the techniques up.

I started because I am an MMA fan and wanted to get involved in martial arts since I was a kid but never had any near me to go to. I also want to learn how to protect myself. I took a lot of shit as a kid and had a few beatings. I figured jiu jitsu would be a good choice.
Well a few months ago a second cousin who also does jiujitsu, in another gym and is a purple belt was in a street fight and got absolutely smashed by a local guy with no training whatsoever.

He just could not take this lad down apparently and he was punched numerous times, had his nose broke and eyes were pretty bruised up. This has made me question if I should start training in another martial art as well. I recently had my motorbike stolen and found out who did it, a local thug off my estate, only problem is he is miles bigger than me and I really don’t see it ending well for me.

I am really sick of being in an area full of bullies and thugs and I want to be able to stand up for myself but also I have always fancied training, been a boxing, k1, MMA and grappling fan and want to see how god I can get and try and compete as an amatuer in a number of stand alone martial arts and maybe MMA.

I am five foot 9 and pretty chubby with slight build, small hands etc. I am out of shape at the moment, probably could do 5 full pullups, 25 pressups. I am pretty shockingly nonexplosive and not athletic. I imagine to an outsider at first glance, I look a bit like kiff from futurama.

I have my MMA gym that offers stand up classes, BJJ and wrestling classes. I have a really close boxing gym that is quite expensive at around 25 for a private session or 3.50 for a group class but one a bit further away that offers 12 a private session and seems pretty legit.

I have been browsing the combat section on here for awhile and really don’t want to be that guy asking stupid questions but I just want to get some guidance on the best thing to do for self defence and just an insight how people start competing in muay thai or boxing. Should I start with private or group classes. How many hours is optimal for rolling etc.

I was consistently improving and putting 2 to 3 hours in on the matts before work and injury has stopped me training and I am not the type to ask advice and then just not do anything. I am not here to validate any of my own theories or get back ups for any of my own opinions I guess I just want some good advice as I am confused what to do once I get back from my current injury, deep gash in upper arm and forearm and long hours split up throughout the day that stop me training.

[Ranzo]

This is just my personal recommendation. Others will have more and maybe better guidance.

I would take regular classes for several months in a discipline that you like, be it jiu jitsu, boxing or whatever. Then start to branch out into the other elements of MMA. You need to be a master of one art and not the jack of all trades master of none IMO. Then later on maybe a year or so later when you start to get some skills and conditioning you might start getting privates to improve your weak areas or get advanced tweaks that will improve you. I don’t see the need for a private lesson for a beginner unless you really do suck and need remedial treatment. You will get more out of privates when you have specific questions or techniques you want to implement or improve on.

If you have a good instructor he/she will look around the room and make corrections based on what he sees you doing in class. Some wont do that because sometimes people get upset if they are singled out as doing something wrong. Don’t be that guy. Even at that the instructor should look around they room and see whats going on and say, Hey many of you are doing “this” or not doing “that” and give you a way to fix it or an example to focus on. Be humble enough to realize that you may be that person and try to do it the way you are supposed to. If you have an injury or handicap that prevents you from doing something ask for a alternate method or substitute move.

Long story but the short answer is SHOW UP and do the classes.

[Sentoguy]

I personally feel that seeking out the best instruction you can afford/have access to in the most relevant system to your goals and putting your all into it is going to produce the best results.

Here are a couple of things to consider though:
-most BJJ schools and/or MMA schools in the US are sport oriented in their training. You can still find some authentic BJJ/GJJ schools, but they are less common IME. Because real fighting is very different from sport fighting, it’s not that surprising that someone who is so so at sport BJJ (purple is decent, but not on the same level as brown or black) might get beat in a real fight by someone with no formal training (but who may have been in numerous sport fights and understand their dynamics better)

-keep in mind that no matter what the system is or teaches, you are always going to find variation in terms of skills and abilities between individuals within any given “style” (even at the same rank/level). In other words, people fight, not systems. So, just because one person who does a certain Martial Art got beat by someone else, doesn’t mean that a different person from that same art would necessarily lose to that same opponent. So don’t use whether an individual won or lost a fight as justification to do or not do a Martial Art (unless maybe there are NO examples of people from a certain art who are effective fighters, or the art itself is just ridiculous like Dillman’s stuff).

-learning grappling and ground fighting are crucial skill sets IMO if one wants to be a complete Martial Artist or fighter. But, you should also learn striking if your goal is self defense, as weapons and multiple opponents are very real dangers in real world fights and generally striking allows for a greater degree of mobility and a faster method of incapacitation than grappling (both of which are beneficial in those situations). I don’t necessarily agree with Ranzo that you have to focus on one skill set at the exclusion of the others to get good as I learned all aspects of combat right from the beginning, as did my instructors and all of the other black belts in the system I train in. But, I won’t deny that that road can’t also get you to a high level as there are quite a few who did just this.

[idaho]

Quote by Sento:::“learning grappling and ground fighting are crucial skill sets IMO if one wants to be a complete Martial Artist or fighter. But, you should also learn striking if your goal is self defense, as weapons and multiple opponents are very real dangers in real world fights and generally striking allows for a greater degree of mobility and a faster method of incapacitation than grappling (both of which are beneficial in those situations”

Totally agree.

Shark,
Ranzo and Sento gave you a good overview and there is no need to re-hash what they have already made very clear. They are both very experienced, so you can rely on them for good instruction. As they pointed out, real fighting is very different from sport fighting. My advise is this :

1. Start working on your basics (whatever method you decide) and start training yourself mentally to survive a lethal encounter and yes, all street encounters can turn lethal. There are no judges or officals in a survival situation. if you are not strong mentally, you will die easily.

2. learn your state or country’s self defense laws, so, you will have a legal defense after you (or if) you survive.

3. Stay in good or peak physical condition. without it you are just a fancy car with no engine.

4. Start reading and studying this website: www.nononsenseselfdefense.com

5. Have some honest internal discssions with yourself: are you a survior? or are you prey?

6. Good luck

[Kirks]

I would think that if you want to be able to defend yourself from bullies, and not get picked on so much, that learning to strike as effectively as possible should be very high on your list.

Obviously, fighting should be a last resort and not your go to. But it sounds like you live in a rough area where you won’t always be able to talk your way out of it. And rolling around on the ground has its merits, but being able to land a solid one two and get out of there might be better.

I think of BJJ as being very handy, but only when you are very good at it. As you said, your cousin has made some progress in it but couldn’t make good use of it. It’s a lot easier to throw a couple of quick and effective punches than it is to manipulate an opponent who is bigger and stronger.

But I have never done BJJ so my take on it might be way off.

[magick]

A couple of things.

1. Learning any sort of martial art for a couple of years won’t allow you to beat someone “miles bigger” than you. It just won’t. It may give you the knowledge to survive an encounter with someone significantly larger than you, but chances are you won’t be able to beat them.

2. Imho, the greatest importance of any sort of martial arts for most people comes from the awareness you learn, not from the actual techniques. Any martial arts that will teach you their own version of awareness. Boxing/most stand-up striking disciplines teach you effective range of strikes and awareness of your opponent’s actions. Grappling techniques won’t do this quite as well, but instead you’ll learn how to manipulate your opponent’s balance/shifting of body.

I think a lot of people place importance on the technique of their given martial art. I think that’s wrong. Unless you’re a black belt or similar and instructed by a genuinely good individual, your actual skills never will be a factor in a fight. The running theme in my own TKD school in Korea was that your skills are absolutely worthless until you get to a 3rd or 4th degree black belt. The same was true with my judo sensei. His advice if we get into a bar fight was something like this- “Run. If you can’t run, trip the guy and then run”.

So, learn whatever martial art you want to. Just be sure to be in it for the long haul, and do not expect your skills to be relevant at all until you’ve been learning under solid instructors and training with solid people for at least three years. The most important skills you’ll learn during training will be reading your opponent and learning how to react moreso than any skill that’ll let you drop them in a split-second.

[LondonBoxer123]

All the above advice is excellent, and sound. I would also encourage nononsenseselfdefence.com. I learned several things from there that I have been able to use effectively when called for. I grew up in a rough borough in London, and while I am nowhere near as experienced or smart on this as Geoff Thompson, a lot of what he talks about is stuff that I found either let me avoid trouble, or smash trouble in the head until it stopped being trouble when it was unavoidable.

Idaho mentioned mentality, and you’d do well to pay careful attention to what he wrote.

At the moment, your mentality is all wrong, your post screams victim. That kind of mindset is a sure way to kop beatings and get your stuff jacked. Once you get your mindset right, you’ll find you don’t have to find yourself in these situations often, or at all.

For example, no one has tried to jack me in nearly a decade. Not cos I’m invincible, or anything close to it, but I do have a mindset that if someone, or a group of people picks on me, if a fight is unavoidable and I’m going to get fucked up at least one of them is going to be fucking lucky to see the morning. Whether that’s actually how it would go when everyone got down to business, doesn’t really matter, cos there are guys like you out there that make easier victims, and predators like prey, not other predators. None of this is meant to shit on you in any way, but it should show you that you need to get in the mindset of being a fucking predator.

Also on the subject of mindset, you say you cant get your motorbike back cos the guy who knicked it is way bigger than you. That to me, shows you’re focusing on the wrong details. If a guy is miles bigger than you, or you can’t beat him one on one in a fair fight, then all you need to do is stack the odds in your favour, weapons, ambush, catching him off guard at home/in the middle of the night. THE IMPORTANT QUESTIONS WHEN YOUR MINDSET IS RIGHT DEAL WITH THE BIGGER PICTURE, SO THINGS LIKE : WHAT ARE THE CONSEQUENCES? IS IT WORTH IT? IS HE GOING TO COME BACK STRONG OR HIDE AWAY? WHAT IS YOUR REPUTATION?

For example: if someone much bigger than me knicked my bike, the size of the bloke wouldn’t concern me. However it ends up getting physical, by the time it comes to that, everything will be so stacked in my favour that I’ll already have won. That’s the easy bit.

I wrote a long paragraph on how I would answer those questions and what kind of steps I would take to try and give you an example, but I realise this is an open forum and I don’t have any idea who might read it. You seem like a nice bloke in a rough spot. If you wanted to post specific questions that we could give you hypothetical responses to, then I’m sure you might continue to get good advice.

[Sentoguy]

[quote]magick wrote:
A couple of things.

1. Learning any sort of martial art for a couple of years won’t allow you to beat someone “miles bigger” than you. It just won’t. It may give you the knowledge to survive an encounter with someone significantly larger than you, but chances are you won’t be able to beat them.

2. Imho, the greatest importance of any sort of martial arts for most people comes from the awareness you learn, not from the actual techniques. Any martial arts that will teach you their own version of awareness. Boxing/most stand-up striking disciplines teach you effective range of strikes and awareness of your opponent’s actions. Grappling techniques won’t do this quite as well, but instead you’ll learn how to manipulate your opponent’s balance/shifting of body.

I think a lot of people place importance on the technique of their given martial art. I think that’s wrong. Unless you’re a black belt or similar and instructed by a genuinely good individual, your actual skills never will be a factor in a fight. The running theme in my own TKD school in Korea was that your skills are absolutely worthless until you get to a 3rd or 4th degree black belt. The same was true with my judo sensei. His advice if we get into a bar fight was something like this- “Run. If you can’t run, trip the guy and then run”.

So, learn whatever martial art you want to. Just be sure to be in it for the long haul, and do not expect your skills to be relevant at all until you’ve been learning under solid instructors and training with solid people for at least three years. The most important skills you’ll learn during training will be reading your opponent and learning how to react moreso than any skill that’ll let you drop them in a split-second.[/quote]

I completely agree on the points about the mindset and awareness; prevention is the best cure.

But, if a martial art isn’t teaching you effective physical skills right from the get go, then you might want to find another martial art.

That’s not to say that once everyone reaches a certain rank that they’ll be able to beat anyone who they run into in a real fight (that’s just pure fantasy, there is no “superman” badge that one earns at any point during their training career that makes them invincible); but if someone hasn’t developed their physical skills to the point where they will work against the majority of would be attackers once they reach brown belt (or at least black belt), then I’m sorry but what the hell are you doing giving them brown or black belts for?

By the time someone reaches 3rd or 4th degree they should be a seriously, seriously dangerous person if cornered and forced to use their physical skills. That rank should put them into the top 1% of people (maybe even higher) in terms of physical combative skills IMO.

[Sentoguy]

[quote]LondonBoxer123 wrote:
All the above advice is excellent, and sound. I would also encourage nononsenseselfdefence.com. I learned several things from there that I have been able to use effectively when called for. I grew up in a rough borough in London, and while I am nowhere near as experienced or smart on this as Geoff Thompson, a lot of what he talks about is stuff that I found either let me avoid trouble, or smash trouble in the head until it stopped being trouble when it was unavoidable.

Idaho mentioned mentality, and you’d do well to pay careful attention to what he wrote.

At the moment, your mentality is all wrong, your post screams victim. That kind of mindset is a sure way to kop beatings and get your stuff jacked. Once you get your mindset right, you’ll find you don’t have to find yourself in these situations often, or at all.

For example, no one has tried to jack me in nearly a decade. Not cos I’m invincible, or anything close to it, but I do have a mindset that if someone, or a group of people picks on me, if a fight is unavoidable and I’m going to get fucked up at least one of them is going to be fucking lucky to see the morning. Whether that’s actually how it would go when everyone got down to business, doesn’t really matter, cos there are guys like you out there that make easier victims, and predators like prey, not other predators. None of this is meant to shit on you in any way, but it should show you that you need to get in the mindset of being a fucking predator.

Also on the subject of mindset, you say you cant get your motorbike back cos the guy who knicked it is way bigger than you. That to me, shows you’re focusing on the wrong details. If a guy is miles bigger than you, or you can’t beat him one on one in a fair fight, then all you need to do is stack the odds in your favour, weapons, ambush, catching him off guard at home/in the middle of the night. THE IMPORTANT QUESTIONS WHEN YOUR MINDSET IS RIGHT DEAL WITH THE BIGGER PICTURE, SO THINGS LIKE : WHAT ARE THE CONSEQUENCES? IS IT WORTH IT? IS HE GOING TO COME BACK STRONG OR HIDE AWAY? WHAT IS YOUR REPUTATION?

For example: if someone much bigger than me knicked my bike, the size of the bloke wouldn’t concern me. However it ends up getting physical, by the time it comes to that, everything will be so stacked in my favour that I’ll already have won. That’s the easy bit.

I wrote a long paragraph on how I would answer those questions and what kind of steps I would take to try and give you an example, but I realise this is an open forum and I don’t have any idea who might read it. You seem like a nice bloke in a rough spot. If you wanted to post specific questions that we could give you hypothetical responses to, then I’m sure you might continue to get good advice.
[/quote]

Great post.

[Pigeonkak]

[quote]LondonBoxer123 wrote:
All the above advice is excellent, and sound. I would also encourage nononsenseselfdefence.com. I learned several things from there that I have been able to use effectively when called for. I grew up in a rough borough in London, and while I am nowhere near as experienced or smart on this as Geoff Thompson, a lot of what he talks about is stuff that I found either let me avoid trouble, or smash trouble in the head until it stopped being trouble when it was unavoidable.

Idaho mentioned mentality, and you’d do well to pay careful attention to what he wrote.

At the moment, your mentality is all wrong, your post screams victim. That kind of mindset is a sure way to kop beatings and get your stuff jacked. Once you get your mindset right, you’ll find you don’t have to find yourself in these situations often, or at all.

For example, no one has tried to jack me in nearly a decade. Not cos I’m invincible, or anything close to it, but I do have a mindset that if someone, or a group of people picks on me, if a fight is unavoidable and I’m going to get fucked up at least one of them is going to be fucking lucky to see the morning. Whether that’s actually how it would go when everyone got down to business, doesn’t really matter, cos there are guys like you out there that make easier victims, and predators like prey, not other predators. None of this is meant to shit on you in any way, but it should show you that you need to get in the mindset of being a fucking predator.

Also on the subject of mindset, you say you cant get your motorbike back cos the guy who knicked it is way bigger than you. That to me, shows you’re focusing on the wrong details. If a guy is miles bigger than you, or you can’t beat him one on one in a fair fight, then all you need to do is stack the odds in your favour, weapons, ambush, catching him off guard at home/in the middle of the night. THE IMPORTANT QUESTIONS WHEN YOUR MINDSET IS RIGHT DEAL WITH THE BIGGER PICTURE, SO THINGS LIKE : WHAT ARE THE CONSEQUENCES? IS IT WORTH IT? IS HE GOING TO COME BACK STRONG OR HIDE AWAY? WHAT IS YOUR REPUTATION?

For example: if someone much bigger than me knicked my bike, the size of the bloke wouldn’t concern me. However it ends up getting physical, by the time it comes to that, everything will be so stacked in my favour that I’ll already have won. That’s the easy bit.

I wrote a long paragraph on how I would answer those questions and what kind of steps I would take to try and give you an example, but I realise this is an open forum and I don’t have any idea who might read it. You seem like a nice bloke in a rough spot. If you wanted to post specific questions that we could give you hypothetical responses to, then I’m sure you might continue to get good advice.
[/quote]

I’m only quoting this so that SharkOnesie appreciates how important this advice is. People with lots of combat and self defense skill will typically back up what London is saying.

[Pigeonkak]

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

[quote]magick wrote:
A couple of things.

1. Learning any sort of martial art for a couple of years won’t allow you to beat someone “miles bigger” than you. It just won’t. It may give you the knowledge to survive an encounter with someone significantly larger than you, but chances are you won’t be able to beat them.

2. Imho, the greatest importance of any sort of martial arts for most people comes from the awareness you learn, not from the actual techniques. Any martial arts that will teach you their own version of awareness. Boxing/most stand-up striking disciplines teach you effective range of strikes and awareness of your opponent’s actions. Grappling techniques won’t do this quite as well, but instead you’ll learn how to manipulate your opponent’s balance/shifting of body.

I think a lot of people place importance on the technique of their given martial art. I think that’s wrong. Unless you’re a black belt or similar and instructed by a genuinely good individual, your actual skills never will be a factor in a fight. The running theme in my own TKD school in Korea was that your skills are absolutely worthless until you get to a 3rd or 4th degree black belt. The same was true with my judo sensei. His advice if we get into a bar fight was something like this- “Run. If you can’t run, trip the guy and then run”.

So, learn whatever martial art you want to. Just be sure to be in it for the long haul, and do not expect your skills to be relevant at all until you’ve been learning under solid instructors and training with solid people for at least three years. The most important skills you’ll learn during training will be reading your opponent and learning how to react moreso than any skill that’ll let you drop them in a split-second.[/quote]

I completely agree on the points about the mindset and awareness; prevention is the best cure.

But, if a martial art isn’t teaching you effective physical skills right from the get go, then you might want to find another martial art.

That’s not to say that once everyone reaches a certain rank that they’ll be able to beat anyone who they run into in a real fight (that’s just pure fantasy, there is no “superman” badge that one earns at any point during their training career that makes them invincible); but if someone hasn’t developed their physical skills to the point where they will work against the majority of would be attackers once they reach brown belt (or at least black belt), then I’m sorry but what the hell are you doing giving them brown or black belts for?

By the time someone reaches 3rd or 4th degree they should be a seriously, seriously dangerous person if cornered and forced to use their physical skills. That rank should put them into the top 1% of people (maybe even higher) in terms of physical combative skills IMO. [/quote]

While I hear you Sento, and agree mostly, let’s not forget that by Sharkie’s admission he is out of shape and not really picking the Jits up quickly. This would be true of him studying the purely self defense type MA you normally endorse.

Whatever MA he chooses, be it BJJ or stand up or whatever - if it lays a suitable physical fitness foundation for him to build on, and creates in him a better understanding of combat and self defense concepts then he is heading in the right direction.

Hopefully he branches out and develops a well rounded and straight forward approach to self defense over time.

[magick]

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
I completely agree on the points about the mindset and awareness; prevention is the best cure.

But, if a martial art isn’t teaching you effective physical skills right from the get go, then you might want to find another martial art.

That’s not to say that once everyone reaches a certain rank that they’ll be able to beat anyone who they run into in a real fight (that’s just pure fantasy, there is no “superman” badge that one earns at any point during their training career that makes them invincible); but if someone hasn’t developed their physical skills to the point where they will work against the majority of would be attackers once they reach brown belt (or at least black belt), then I’m sorry but what the hell are you doing giving them brown or black belts for?

By the time someone reaches 3rd or 4th degree they should be a seriously, seriously dangerous person if cornered and forced to use their physical skills. That rank should put them into the top 1% of people (maybe even higher) in terms of physical combative skills IMO. [/quote]

Well, I said that the whole “3rd or 4th degree thing” because that was the lesson our TKD teachers gave us. They gave it for a reason. We were 10-13 year olds who were only learning the basics of TKD and given inflated belts reminiscent of a mcdojo, and our teachers wanted to instill upon us that what we learned really won’t matter all that much in a street fight. Street fights in middle and high school were (not sure now) fairly common in Korea, and our teachers didn’t want us to think that our belts meant we had actual skills. Our teachers were the real deal iirc; but they just also wanted to run a business and decided to reinforce this message so that we wouldn’t get our head up our ass and get ourselves hurt. Overstatement helps with little kids.

I agree with you that anyone with a reasonable amount of training can be capable of defending themselves. Anyone with a green belt or above in most traditional martial arts taught by good teachers and training with good people will be more than capable of defending themselves in a random fight. But not out of their own actual skills, but rather simply because they’d have more experience with physical contact. At least, that is what I believe. It takes an awful long time to really internalize and make the skills you learn your own, and so relying on the skills moreso than the experience you gained from just sparring against people is a bad idea. That’s one of the reasons I like judo. You can start sparring very early on, and it’s based more upon sheer experience you gain from doing things more than learning a bunch of techniques.

I’ve trained in judo for two years and I honestly do not believe that I’ll be able to throw someone in a random fight. The best I can do, and really my game-plan if I’m ever unlucky enough to get into a random fight, is continue avoiding contact until I get to force him to take a big step and just sweep his legs.

[LondonBoxer123]

[quote]Pigeonkak wrote:

[quote]LondonBoxer123 wrote:
All the above advice is excellent, and sound. I would also encourage nononsenseselfdefence.com. I learned several things from there that I have been able to use effectively when called for. I grew up in a rough borough in London, and while I am nowhere near as experienced or smart on this as Geoff Thompson, a lot of what he talks about is stuff that I found either let me avoid trouble, or smash trouble in the head until it stopped being trouble when it was unavoidable.

Idaho mentioned mentality, and you’d do well to pay careful attention to what he wrote.

At the moment, your mentality is all wrong, your post screams victim. That kind of mindset is a sure way to kop beatings and get your stuff jacked. Once you get your mindset right, you’ll find you don’t have to find yourself in these situations often, or at all.

For example, no one has tried to jack me in nearly a decade. Not cos I’m invincible, or anything close to it, but I do have a mindset that if someone, or a group of people picks on me, if a fight is unavoidable and I’m going to get fucked up at least one of them is going to be fucking lucky to see the morning. Whether that’s actually how it would go when everyone got down to business, doesn’t really matter, cos there are guys like you out there that make easier victims, and predators like prey, not other predators. None of this is meant to shit on you in any way, but it should show you that you need to get in the mindset of being a fucking predator.

Also on the subject of mindset, you say you cant get your motorbike back cos the guy who knicked it is way bigger than you. That to me, shows you’re focusing on the wrong details. If a guy is miles bigger than you, or you can’t beat him one on one in a fair fight, then all you need to do is stack the odds in your favour, weapons, ambush, catching him off guard at home/in the middle of the night. THE IMPORTANT QUESTIONS WHEN YOUR MINDSET IS RIGHT DEAL WITH THE BIGGER PICTURE, SO THINGS LIKE : WHAT ARE THE CONSEQUENCES? IS IT WORTH IT? IS HE GOING TO COME BACK STRONG OR HIDE AWAY? WHAT IS YOUR REPUTATION?

For example: if someone much bigger than me knicked my bike, the size of the bloke wouldn’t concern me. However it ends up getting physical, by the time it comes to that, everything will be so stacked in my favour that I’ll already have won. That’s the easy bit.

I wrote a long paragraph on how I would answer those questions and what kind of steps I would take to try and give you an example, but I realise this is an open forum and I don’t have any idea who might read it. You seem like a nice bloke in a rough spot. If you wanted to post specific questions that we could give you hypothetical responses to, then I’m sure you might continue to get good advice.
[/quote]

I’m only quoting this so that SharkOnesie appreciates how important this advice is. People with lots of combat and self defense skill will typically back up what London is saying.
[/quote]

Thanks buddy, and you too Sento, I appreciate it. For the record though, I’m an idiot who learned the hard way and owes a shitload to blind luck.

[Sentoguy]

[quote]Pigeonkak wrote:

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

[quote]magick wrote:
A couple of things.

1. Learning any sort of martial art for a couple of years won’t allow you to beat someone “miles bigger” than you. It just won’t. It may give you the knowledge to survive an encounter with someone significantly larger than you, but chances are you won’t be able to beat them.

2. Imho, the greatest importance of any sort of martial arts for most people comes from the awareness you learn, not from the actual techniques. Any martial arts that will teach you their own version of awareness. Boxing/most stand-up striking disciplines teach you effective range of strikes and awareness of your opponent’s actions. Grappling techniques won’t do this quite as well, but instead you’ll learn how to manipulate your opponent’s balance/shifting of body.

I think a lot of people place importance on the technique of their given martial art. I think that’s wrong. Unless you’re a black belt or similar and instructed by a genuinely good individual, your actual skills never will be a factor in a fight. The running theme in my own TKD school in Korea was that your skills are absolutely worthless until you get to a 3rd or 4th degree black belt. The same was true with my judo sensei. His advice if we get into a bar fight was something like this- “Run. If you can’t run, trip the guy and then run”.

So, learn whatever martial art you want to. Just be sure to be in it for the long haul, and do not expect your skills to be relevant at all until you’ve been learning under solid instructors and training with solid people for at least three years. The most important skills you’ll learn during training will be reading your opponent and learning how to react moreso than any skill that’ll let you drop them in a split-second.[/quote]

I completely agree on the points about the mindset and awareness; prevention is the best cure.

But, if a martial art isn’t teaching you effective physical skills right from the get go, then you might want to find another martial art.

That’s not to say that once everyone reaches a certain rank that they’ll be able to beat anyone who they run into in a real fight (that’s just pure fantasy, there is no “superman” badge that one earns at any point during their training career that makes them invincible); but if someone hasn’t developed their physical skills to the point where they will work against the majority of would be attackers once they reach brown belt (or at least black belt), then I’m sorry but what the hell are you doing giving them brown or black belts for?

By the time someone reaches 3rd or 4th degree they should be a seriously, seriously dangerous person if cornered and forced to use their physical skills. That rank should put them into the top 1% of people (maybe even higher) in terms of physical combative skills IMO. [/quote]

While I hear you Sento, and agree mostly, let’s not forget that by Sharkie’s admission he is out of shape and not really picking the Jits up quickly. This would be true of him studying the purely self defense type MA you normally endorse.

Whatever MA he chooses, be it BJJ or stand up or whatever - if it lays a suitable physical fitness foundation for him to build on, and creates in him a better understanding of combat and self defense concepts then he is heading in the right direction.

Hopefully he branches out and develops a well rounded and straight forward approach to self defense over time.[/quote]

Yes, I fully agree with you that the OP needs to focus on his physical fitness, regardless of what style he should train in.

[yukkarn]

SharkOnsie,
What they all said pretty much nailed the topic. They’ve given you gold, re-read those posts.
I just want to comment on one aspect of your query. You said … “but I just want to get some guidance on the best thing to do for self defence”. Apply the advice you’ve been given here already about training and martial art selections etc, but until you achieve some basic level of competence in a fighting skill, can I offer you the following additional suggestions? At the risk of being called a W.D, think about these things too:

1. Develop your situational awareness. Don’t walk looking at the ground 5 feet in front of you. Look up, look ahead, look around you and look out for trouble. See those 3 or 4 toughs at the end of the street just lounging around outside that doorway? Cross the street now and possibly avoid trouble;
2. Walk tall. You shouldn’t strut with Imaginary Lat Syndrome, just walk with a purpose and project confidence. A study done using convicted rapists showed how important this can be. They showed the cons video of various women walking and asked them which one they would have chosen as the one to approach (their victim). I believe the results were unanimous…they all chose the one walking with her eyes down, shoulders slumped, looking “mousy”.
3. Don’t be where the trouble is. Unless you’re a cop or a doorman, being where booze and testosterone mix at stupid levels is a choice. If the party is getting out of hand, leave. There’ll be other parties.
4. Check your ego at the door. You’ll get called out as a pussy by someone who’s just itching to provoke you into a fight. So what? He’s a douche. Walk away. He follows you? Run.
5. Can’t get away? Cornered or surrounded? Absolutely no way to talk this one down? Then it is going to get messy and you’re going to need to act decisively, not reactively. If it has reached that point (and you’ll recognise it when you’re there), apply Rule 4F. Be First, Be Fast, Be Ferocious, and then F*ck Off. Do enough to defend yourself and stop the threat but no more.

Sorry if that all seems like “Dad” advice but given your self-description as " 5’9" and chubby with a slight build and out of shape", until you get trained and aquire some skills, the best self-defence technique for you right now is any one you won’t have to use.

[Pigeonkak]

[quote]yukkarn wrote:
SharkOnsie,
What they all said pretty much nailed the topic. They’ve given you gold, re-read those posts.
I just want to comment on one aspect of your query. You said … “but I just want to get some guidance on the best thing to do for self defence”. Apply the advice you’ve been given here already about training and martial art selections etc, but until you achieve some basic level of competence in a fighting skill, can I offer you the following additional suggestions? At the risk of being called a W.D, think about these things too:

1. Develop your situational awareness. Don’t walk looking at the ground 5 feet in front of you. Look up, look ahead, look around you and look out for trouble. See those 3 or 4 toughs at the end of the street just lounging around outside that doorway? Cross the street now and possibly avoid trouble;
2. Walk tall. You shouldn’t strut with Imaginary Lat Syndrome, just walk with a purpose and project confidence. A study done using convicted rapists showed how important this can be. They showed the cons video of various women walking and asked them which one they would have chosen as the one to approach (their victim). I believe the results were unanimous…they all chose the one walking with her eyes down, shoulders slumped, looking “mousy”.
3. Don’t be where the trouble is. Unless you’re a cop or a doorman, being where booze and testosterone mix at stupid levels is a choice. If the party is getting out of hand, leave. There’ll be other parties.
4. Check your ego at the door. You’ll get called out as a pussy by someone who’s just itching to provoke you into a fight. So what? He’s a douche. Walk away. He follows you? Run.
5. Can’t get away? Cornered or surrounded? Absolutely no way to talk this one down? Then it is going to get messy and you’re going to need to act decisively, not reactively. If it has reached that point (and you’ll recognise it when you’re there), apply Rule 4F. Be First, Be Fast, Be Ferocious, and then F*ck Off. Do enough to defend yourself and stop the threat but no more.

Sorry if that all seems like “Dad” advice but given your self-description as " 5’9" and chubby with a slight build and out of shape", until you get trained and aquire some skills, the best self-defence technique for you right now is any one you won’t have to use.[/quote]

Hear, hear!

[Sentoguy]

[quote]Pigeonkak wrote:

[quote]yukkarn wrote:
SharkOnsie,
What they all said pretty much nailed the topic. They’ve given you gold, re-read those posts.
I just want to comment on one aspect of your query. You said … “but I just want to get some guidance on the best thing to do for self defence”. Apply the advice you’ve been given here already about training and martial art selections etc, but until you achieve some basic level of competence in a fighting skill, can I offer you the following additional suggestions? At the risk of being called a W.D, think about these things too:

1. Develop your situational awareness. Don’t walk looking at the ground 5 feet in front of you. Look up, look ahead, look around you and look out for trouble. See those 3 or 4 toughs at the end of the street just lounging around outside that doorway? Cross the street now and possibly avoid trouble;
2. Walk tall. You shouldn’t strut with Imaginary Lat Syndrome, just walk with a purpose and project confidence. A study done using convicted rapists showed how important this can be. They showed the cons video of various women walking and asked them which one they would have chosen as the one to approach (their victim). I believe the results were unanimous…they all chose the one walking with her eyes down, shoulders slumped, looking “mousy”.
3. Don’t be where the trouble is. Unless you’re a cop or a doorman, being where booze and testosterone mix at stupid levels is a choice. If the party is getting out of hand, leave. There’ll be other parties.
4. Check your ego at the door. You’ll get called out as a pussy by someone who’s just itching to provoke you into a fight. So what? He’s a douche. Walk away. He follows you? Run.
5. Can’t get away? Cornered or surrounded? Absolutely no way to talk this one down? Then it is going to get messy and you’re going to need to act decisively, not reactively. If it has reached that point (and you’ll recognise it when you’re there), apply Rule 4F. Be First, Be Fast, Be Ferocious, and then F*ck Off. Do enough to defend yourself and stop the threat but no more.

Sorry if that all seems like “Dad” advice but given your self-description as " 5’9" and chubby with a slight build and out of shape", until you get trained and aquire some skills, the best self-defence technique for you right now is any one you won’t have to use.[/quote]

Hear, hear!
[/quote]

x2 excellent post and advice

[sharkOnesie]

Hey everyone I just wanted to say, thank you very much for all the advice and great replies. I was suprised how cool everyone was to be honest.

I have decided to take the advice of sticking with one art and getting proficient in it. I am sticking with jiu jitsu and am about to start the one lift a day program while eating at a surplus on the crossfit football nutrition plan. Whole milk and cheese, dairy, veg, nuts , eggs and as much meat as I can eat with the occasional fruit snack.

I will keep a log on here and am looking forward to starting on monday. My training sessions will be as follows:

Monday: Bench Press

Tuesday: weighted chinups

Wednesday: Squat

Thursday: military press

Friday: Deadlifts

Or something similar.

I will be following the wave formatting so one week higher repetitions and or sets such as;

Week One: 7 sets of 5
Week Two: 6 sets of 3
Week Three: 5-3-2
Week Four: Off

I will aim for around 3,000 calories a day and at least 1 gram of protein per pound of bodyweight.

Once again thank you for the sincere advice people.

[MWP]

[quote]sharkOnesie wrote:

I have decided to take the advice of sticking with one art and getting proficient in it. I am sticking with jiu jitsu and am about to start the one lift a day program while eating at a surplus on the crossfit football nutrition plan.[/quote]

If there is any advice I can give you in BJJ it’s work on your cardio. The biggest hurdle most people have starting out is their gas and the best way to accomplish this is actually the easiest to do, roll. You can run, swim, etc… but there is no substitute for the real thing. Roll as much as your instructor will let you, which will usually be after technique. Not only will this work on your cardio, it will probably get you promoted quicker.

Also, focus on your breathing. That’s another big hang-up that new white belts have besides just generally going 100% all the time. Slow down and breath.

Good choice on picking BJJ and good luck. It’s a journey.

[Pigeonkak]

[quote]sharkOnesie wrote:
Hey everyone I just wanted to say, thank you very much for all the advice and great replies. I was suprised how cool everyone was to be honest.

I have decided to take the advice of sticking with one art and getting proficient in it. I am sticking with jiu jitsu and am about to start the one lift a day program while eating at a surplus on the crossfit football nutrition plan. Whole milk and cheese, dairy, veg, nuts , eggs and as much meat as I can eat with the occasional fruit snack.

I will keep a log on here and am looking forward to starting on monday. My training sessions will be as follows:

Monday: Bench Press

Tuesday: weighted chinups

Wednesday: Squat

Thursday: military press

Friday: Deadlifts

Or something similar.

I will be following the wave formatting so one week higher repetitions and or sets such as;

Week One: 7 sets of 5
Week Two: 6 sets of 3
Week Three: 5-3-2
Week Four: Off

I will aim for around 3,000 calories a day and at least 1 gram of protein per pound of bodyweight.

Once again thank you for the sincere advice people.[/quote]

The advice was sincere, because you stated the facts honestly. I’m not going to say you should change your weight training, you should do what works for you. However, if combat proficiency is your end goal, then you need to be practicing your combat more than stressing about weights and reps. If you believe that you can juggle a heavy weight programme AND serious BJJ training then kudos to you. personally, I am not certain when the world decided benching is more manly than wrenching your enemies limbs out of their sockets.

I will say one thing though, don’t injure yourself starting with weighted chin ups. Do body weight for a while and hone your form (no kipping) and maybe consider weighted chin ups when you can knock out bunches of chin ups. Like bunches and bunches.