T Nation

Looking for Studies to Back Up


#1

Hi, i’m new to the forum and read the stickies. Ive been diagnosed with primary hypogonadism a year ago and have been treated for severe depression since then. Doctors have been telling me depression might have cause low t. Thyroid test are good so are morning and p.m temps. Iodized salt consumed regularly as iodized table salt.

Im 30 yrs old 235 lbs around 18-20% bf. I work out regularly since im 14 yrs old 4-6 times per week but took a one year break because im not motivated. I Cant seem to add mass and cant lose that little beer belly and love handles.

Im not yet on trt but recent bloods shows under range low t again. Doctor refering me to an endo.
Ive talked to my doc about protocol i want to follow and he told me they dont take e2 in bloods because its not in their trt protocol. I want some studies to back up that they need to watch my E2 and optimal ranges. They dont prescribe hcg either but i found a study from ncbi to prove my point. Looking for another doc is not possible here.


#2

Are you in UK? No, iodized salt not common there…

Need your labs posted here with lab ranges. Not just hormones, everything.

Please post thyroid labs as no one can agree on what good or normal means or should be.

Many guys with low T are depressed.

With low T, need to test LH/FSH to see if there is an issue with testes or pituitary. If LH/FSH are low, should test prolactin to see if a prolactin secreting pituitary adinoma [not rare] is the cause.

Please see the first two stickies below. In the 2nd you might find some factors related to your case.

Please read the stickies found here: About the T Replacement Category

  • advice for new guys - need more info about you
  • things that damage your hormones
  • protocol for injections
  • finding a TRT doc

Evaluate your overall thyroid function by checking oral body temperatures as per the thyroid basics sticky. Thyroid hormone fT3 is what gets the job done and it regulates mitochondrial activity, the source of ATP which is the universal currency of cellular energy. This is part of the body’s temperature control loop. This can get messed up if you are iodine deficient. In many countries, you need to be using iodized salt. Other countries add iodine to dairy or bread.


#3

I will post labs soon. I just dont have them on hand cause not at home. Im in Quebec Canada so table salt is iodized and labeled iodized on package. I do remember my lh and fsh were normal a year ago so was prolactin. But i dont have these results id have to get them from the hospital. I do have my latest labs on hand where only tt ft and shbg were tested. Tt 8,5 (10-30) nmol/L
Shbg 27 (12-46) nmol
Ft 190 (223-915) pmol/L
Bio T. 4.0. (4.6 - 18.8) nmol/L


#4

BTW thanks KSman for taking time to answer my thread. Do you know any studies about e2 needed to be watched on trt? Or any that would describe the effects of high e2 on man? What would be good arguments to tell my endo about monitoring e2 and use anastrozole?


#5

Our experiences here with elevated E2, not needing to be high:
moody
short tempered and intolerance
less that expected fat loss
low libido, even with high TT and FT
low energy
sexual performance problems
general low quality of life
low interest in socialization
inappropriate emotions, unless you like crying watching chick flicks

E2=22pg/ml seems optimal for all of the above issues. With that males are calm and not easily annoyed. Emotions are drier and men are more analytical. For some, reducing E2 upper 30’s to lower 20’s can be like a rebirth in terms of libido, sexual function and overall QOL. Doctors should be open minded to trying and observing/listening to how their guys respond, then they can believe.


#6

Ok here are previous labs result. I know its french but i dont know the translation for all.

Acide urique 302 (200-420)
Creatinine 103 (32-106)
DFGe : > 60 ( >60)
Protein c reactiv HS 0.8 (0.0-5.0)

Lipid
Total cholesterol 2.97. (3.20-5.70) low
Triglycerides 1.84 (0.60 - 2.30)
HDL 0.82 (0.90- 1.60) low
LDL 1.33 (1.70 - 3.0)
Cholesterol total/HDL 3.6. (1.0 - 5.0) RATIO
Very weird because i do eat lots of healthy fats every day? Coconut oil avocado fish oil salmon beef olive oil ect…

Iron 23 (10-28)
Transferrine 2.30 (2.00 - 3.60)
Capacite de saturation 52 (45-82)
Iron saturation 0.44 (0.20- 0.45)

Sodium 143 (135-146)
Potassium 4.5 (3.4-5.1)
Chlorure 105 (98-110)
Ast 19 (4-39)
Alt 51 (13-55)
Ldh 155 (95-250)

Cortisol 8 a.m 605 (145-619)
Cortisol 4 p.m 151 (95-460)

TSH 1.46 (0.30-4.40)

Protein total 66 (64-82)
Albumine 44 (40-55)

B12 468 (140-700)
Acide folique 44 (7-40) H

Hematocrit 0.48 (0.367-0.471) H

Gamma gt 25 (10-76)


#7

None of this is going to work, doctors will not be interested.

Try Francois Gilbert, he’s not with the RAMQ (private practice so $$) chances are he is not as compelled as the rest. He has a website.

He seemed open to fertility when I emailed him (means hCG). Didn’t see him so I cant guarantee anything.


#8

Ok thanks ill look for him if nothing works with the endo


#9

Also if you have a script for an endo you can choose who you want, not sure how it works if you already seen one. Think you could go to a private one without a script if you already see one.


#10

Im still waiting to see an endo at the moment. Still doesnt have one.


#11

You are going to wait 8 months and you will be given 50 mg of test by injection if you are lucky. It’s going to be intramuscular injection by a nurse every week. I managed to get it subQ by a pharmacist (they didnt talk to each other, the endo let it go when he was called, etc). Otherwise you will get the expensive gel that is useless most of the time. They are going to push for that.

Then you will come back in another 4 months and will get 100 mg because 50mg isnt enough if you are 235lbs.

That treatment could always work if you are lucky. If it doesnt then I think you are screwed being in Qc.

No one is going to give you an AI and hCG. I think they only give you hCG if you see fertility doctors if you want to have a kid and it’s going to be temporary. In that case you are going to wait at least 8 months.

If you go see the guy I wrote about please update this thread with the results.


#12

Damn, i didnt know it was that long… Anyway ill see soon enough with my doc. Hes supposed to call the endo to get me a script of trt before i consult him. I dont know if it will work though… I still might get my arimidex and hcg other than in pharmacy… Depending of the price it would be to consult the private endo in mtl… 50 mg of test per week isnt going to get me anywhere…


#13

He’s not going to want to discuss your view of medecine with you, they don’t have the time. He is not going to say anything and will dodge any topic.

They have their tricks to get you out of the office. You won’t win. They do that all week and you don’t.

You are going to get the recommended treatment.

Just so you are not disappointed.


#14

That’s good. Keep this thread updated if you want, I would be interested in who the endo is and what he is giving, I might be wrong.


#15

Good to know… So you are on trt in QC? How did it go for you? You are on trt without ai? Do they check your E2?


#16

I am in Quebec.

They never check the E2, if you have a paper where you can manually check the tests, you can add E2 yourself.

They will not look at it.

I am doing a TRT trial, but I am 98% sure now I am not hypogonadal.

Right now I am taking my 8 months 50mg/week script at the rate of 250mg-350mg per week, so I am basically on steroids. Taking small dose AI from the black market. Tried their dose and 100mg before that.

I will try to get a PCT soon but I can already tell they wont help me, so I’ll do it myself with SERMs from the internet


#17

I will keep this thread updated. Where is located your endo so i dont get the same?


#18

Also How did you feel on 100mg/week?


#19

Not any different, but thats just me because I am not hypogonadal with 12 nmol/L total T. No difference with 200 mg, 250 mg and 350 mg either. I have only been going up so no issues with remaining estrogen from a higher dose while on a lower dose.

Only more gym strength with 200 mg and above.

Felt pretty bad 5-6 days after the injection the week I injected a little bit more than 50mg.

If I was to do TRT personally I would do 80mg per week divided in 2 dose. Unaware of how much AI I would need and the effect of hCG on testo. Higher doses just make you a bit more uncomfortable.


#20

Montreal.

I have seen a few, they are all the same because they follow directions from their association.