Looking for Opinions

It’s all good. By debating the options and defending the positions I can find out what means the most to me. Thus I will know where my heart is and what I will/want to be doing. Just in the short time talking wiht you all I know I do not want to make my training and diet about getting uber ripped, I just can’t get “up” for that. But Holy shit sir_tris you are extremely ripped! Nice job!

Yep it comes down to two diametrically opposed goals…but are they? There are lots of 242 and 198 and below MASTER lifters pressing a hell of allot more than 500 pounds. I don’t see how getting fat relates to gaining strength. If I eat clean and put myself in a small caloric deficit I should be fine and still look pretty good doing it!

On a side note Cap I’m not sure where you were going with the age thing. When I started power lifting at age 40 I put 100 pounds on my bench in two years. This year I shaved a full second off my 40 time when i started training for football at the age of 44. Yes, I realize I cannot recover or build like a 20 something but there are gains to be made at any age. The injury thing is really non-relevant. It happens and it is the risk everyone takes when competing in anything.

However I did like the irony of the gal who is rolling with a 5 time national champion warning me about getting hurt! It was only my triceps but I was ready for anything everytime I took the field and I knew what the risks are/were and yes it was worth it to play, at least for me it was. But then again if it were easy where would the fun in that be?

[quote]sir_tris wrote:
I would say go for the lean look and see what’s under the hood. That’s what I have done. There are many really big guys but only a couple who are ripped and muscular.

I have never had so many comments from complete strangers than I have since getting my BF% down to around 8%[/quote]

I have to totally agree with sir_tris on this one. -10% bf is the only way to go.

[quote]Colin Wilson wrote:
It’s all good. By debating the options and defending the positions I can find out what means the most to me. Thus I will know where my heart is and what I will/want to be doing. Just in the short time talking wiht you all I know I do not want to make my training and diet about getting uber ripped, I just can’t get “up” for that. But Holy shit sir_tris you are extremely ripped! Nice job!

Yep it comes down to two diametrically opposed goals…but are they? There are lots of 242 and 198 and below MASTER lifters pressing a hell of allot more than 500 pounds. I don’t see how getting fat relates to gaining strength. If I eat clean and put myself in a small caloric deficit I should be fine and still look pretty good doing it!

On a side note Cap I’m not sure where you were going with the age thing. When I started power lifting at age 40 I put 100 pounds on my bench in two years. This year I shaved a full second off my 40 time when i started training for football at the age of 44. Yes, I realize I cannot recover or build like a 20 something but there are gains to be made at any age. The injury thing is really non-relevant. It happens and it is the risk everyone takes when competing in anything.

However I did like the irony of the gal who is rolling with a 5 time national champion warning me about getting hurt! It was only my triceps but I was ready for anything everytime I took the field and I knew what the risks are/were and yes it was worth it to play, at least for me it was. But then again if it were easy where would the fun in that be?

[/quote]

I personally wasn’t talking about getting fat, but a caloric surplus will aid recovery after training sessions and that’s going to contribute to being a bit “smooth.” Nobody sez youse gots to become tubby. Not me, anyways.

Yeah maybe fat was an overstatement, sorry. I have noticed that the Super heavies have two things in common. Huge backs and 4 hot dogs taped to the back of their necks…LOL

[quote]Colin Wilson wrote:
Yeah maybe fat was an overstatement, sorry. I have noticed that the Super heavies have two things in common. Huge backs and 4 hot dogs taped to the back of their necks…LOL [/quote]

“4 hot dogs…” That’s hilarious because it’s so true.

I met Scott Cartwright at one of my son’s gymnastics meets. His son competes as well. Biggest man I ever met who was my height. You could pack two of me into his skin. He had those hot dogs.

Fat people have more to love while looking great. I only speak the truth because I have the t-shirt.

[quote]Capacity wrote:
OK, here is what I think is the crux of your thread. You present two choices. At some point you’d like to go after each goal, but you’re not really sure you can achieve either. You’re standing at a crossroads, trying to make a choice between to very different goals. If you lean out, it won’t help you reach your BP goal, and if you go for the BP you’ll probably need to gain some weight and bodyfat. There aren’t many roadblocks to leaning out; just your own desire and willpower.

There could be some significant hurdles to hitting the PB goal, but you won’t know until you try. IMO, the BP won’t get any easier with time. After all, who knows what next FB season will bring? But it’s your choice. Nobody can tell you what’s more important to you now or in the long run. I’d just look at the big picture, try to evaluate what sort of process is involved in either choice and pick the one that resonates with you most.
[/quote]

Now it makes sense in the above dialog: I don’t think I have ever dropped into single digit body fat in my life.

And you want to now because … ?

That hit me because I’m interested in getting stronger and in leaning out. I’ve been doing both for a while, but I’m no where near the numbers he is at, where you have to make harder choices.

And, I’m not competing in weight lifting or playing football (and, at 5’5" not likely to start with the football any time soon :wink: ).

Something to think about, appreciate the way you expressed it and brought the choices we all face into focus.

[quote]Yo Momma wrote:
Walk on the Westside, and go for 500.

Abs aren’t worth all the cardio, anyway.[/quote]

I’m with Yo Momma.

[quote]Jimmy T wrote:
Yo Momma wrote:
Walk on the Westside, and go for 500.

Abs aren’t worth all the cardio, anyway.

I’m with Yo Momma.

[/quote]

Me too! I’m REALLY looking forward to seeing your PL training Colin.

[quote]Colin Wilson wrote:
It’s all good. By debating the options and defending the positions I can find out what means the most to me. Thus I will know where my heart is and what I will/want to be doing. Just in the short time talking wiht you all I know I do not want to make my training and diet about getting uber ripped, I just can’t get “up” for that. But Holy shit sir_tris you are extremely ripped! Nice job!

Yep it comes down to two diametrically opposed goals…but are they? There are lots of 242 and 198 and below MASTER lifters pressing a hell of allot more than 500 pounds. I don’t see how getting fat relates to gaining strength. If I eat clean and put myself in a small caloric deficit I should be fine and still look pretty good doing it!

On a side note Cap I’m not sure where you were going with the age thing. When I started power lifting at age 40 I put 100 pounds on my bench in two years. This year I shaved a full second off my 40 time when i started training for football at the age of 44. Yes, I realize I cannot recover or build like a 20 something but there are gains to be made at any age. The injury thing is really non-relevant. It happens and it is the risk everyone takes when competing in anything.

However I did like the irony of the gal who is rolling with a 5 time national champion warning me about getting hurt! It was only my triceps but I was ready for anything everytime I took the field and I knew what the risks are/were and yes it was worth it to play, at least for me it was. But then again if it were easy where would the fun in that be?

[/quote]

I totally agree with you Colin. It’s about passion. Your passion is football and mine is speed blading. Both of which can cause some very serious injuries. Yet I could not for the life of me stop. That would be like committing suicide.

It’s like that saying “It is better to have loved and lost, than to have never loved at all”. I would much rather injure myself living life to the fullest than live in fear of what may happen. Live is for living the rest can wait until I die!

Well Colin you seem to have brought out all the different philosophies for doing this thing we do
health
looks
rehab
strength
Combo of all or some of the above. The looks and strength part the Doc would probably have to weigh in on to analyze why we do it. I do know I’ve tried to go on a bodybuiding routine and stay on a strict format of reps/sets/body parts/diet.

But like the bad man in Dirty Harry said “I gots to know” and here comes the heavy maxs again. I’m always reading where we’re suppose to be losing T and all this other stuff by our age. BS, I’m still growing and making gains and I’ve got maybe 8/9 years on you and all kinds of past tramatic injuries. In summary, take your shot at it or you’ll always wonder if you could of.
PS SSgt Hollander helped me remove my head from my rectal cavity

[quote]daddyzombie wrote:
Jimmy T wrote:
Yo Momma wrote:
Walk on the Westside, and go for 500.

Abs aren’t worth all the cardio, anyway.

I’m with Yo Momma.

Me too! I’m REALLY looking forward to seeing your PL training Colin.

[/quote]

There’s a couple good boys that listen to Yo Momma.

Some men are built for speed.
Some men are built for power.

You look like you can move some heavy weight around.
Now, get busy doing what you do best.
Or do I have to take you out back to the shed and give you a beatin’?

If I’m reading this right, you have to do some rehab from football anyway. So lean out while rehabbing…dieting usually means a small drop in strength,(sometimes not). Do what you gotta do while leaning out, then hit it.

I got down to 6% in April and my strength never took a dive. When I went off the diet(still eating clean, just more) my max’s in everything went up. Bench went up 40 lbs in 3 months, that was a lot for me. I guess the point is it could be a way to jumpstart the quest for 500.

Good fortune on the quest.

[quote]Yo Momma wrote:
daddyzombie wrote:
Jimmy T wrote:
Yo Momma wrote:
Walk on the Westside, and go for 500.

Abs aren’t worth all the cardio, anyway.

I’m with Yo Momma.

Me too! I’m REALLY looking forward to seeing your PL training Colin.

There’s a couple good boys that listen to Yo Momma.
Or do I have to take you out back to the shed and give you a beatin’?

[/quote]

Lucky for you I happen too like that sort of thing, lol. Actually this has been great. I figured there would be good debate and in that debate I would figure out what the hell I wanted to do! I appreacite all the dialog!

[quote]Colin Wilson wrote:
I don’t see how getting fat relates to gaining strength.[/quote]

It doesn’t. You don’t have to get fat to gain strength. But cut your BF% (even more) and bring your bench up? Hm. This has never helped my strength increase beyond a certain level.

Maybe so. Hey, do it and I’ll be the first to applaud you!

OK, but that makes me wonder if maybe you didn’t attack your bench with the best approach prior to that. Or maybe you just didn’t have all your ducks lined up until you hit 40. Or maybe a big bench wasn’t even a goal until you turned 40 … who knows? All I’m saying is that there are probably a lot of reasons why you made great progress, but I don’t think being older improved your bench. So if everything (but your age) is the same, then maybe you can make some significant gains still. But I do think most people become more sensitive to an assortment of other variables as they age. Maybe you haven’t hit that threshold yet, so naturally YMMV. But if you have, this may be one way to find out.

See coments above. Also, a major challenge (at any age) can do amazing things to old PRs … and dropping 30 pounds doesn’t hurt your speed, either!

Yes and no. Again, a lot depends upon what you’ve done prior, your overall health status and how well you’re aging. Most athletes will have to make some adjustments and compromises as they age, but everyone’s journey is different.

Yeah. No doubt, I’m an asshat. But he rolled with me to protect me. Put it this way: if you’re gonna jump out of an airplane who would you rather piggyback with … someone with a few jumps under their belt or someone who’s logged hundreds of jumps? It was a safety precaution for me, nothing more. And FWIW, I wasn’t out to win a game or set a new PR, either. It was just practice. The whole point was to give me some experience with a little less risk involved. Having rolled with a bunch of guys today, I totally appreciate his point. :wink:

[quote]Streamline wrote:
It’s like that saying “It is better to have loved and lost, than to have never loved at all”. I would much rather injure myself living life to the fullest than live in fear of what may happen. Live is for living the rest can wait until I die![/quote]

A cliche is nice on a motivational poster, but as someone who’s had to live it out for real I can tell you that if you’re a true lifter at heart it’s never going to be OK to be forced to quit lifting. Never. Better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all? Screw that. Lifting ain’t about love. It runs deeper.

Cappy

[quote]Colin Wilson wrote:

Lucky for you I happen too like that sort of thing, lol. Actually this has been great. I figured there would be good debate and in that debate I would figure out what the hell I wanted to do! I appreacite all the dialog!
[/quote]

When you figure it out, let me know. I’m pretty much done with rugby after my surgery last year, and don’t know what the hell to do with myself either. Maybe I’ll start my own thread. Or not.

[quote]streamline wrote:

I totally agree with you Colin. It’s about passion. Your passion is football and mine is speed blading. Both of which can cause some very serious injuries. Yet I could not for the life of me stop. That would be like committing suicide.

It’s like that saying “It is better to have loved and lost, than to have never loved at all”. I would much rather injure myself living life to the fullest than live in fear of what may happen. Live is for living the rest can wait until I die![/quote]

Well - I’m all for passion, but I think it needs to be tempered by some good sense. This is a hobby, after all. Injuries are to be avoided as much as humanly possible, especially if one wishes to continue to succeed and progress in one’s past-time.

I have to keep myself healthy so I can continue to provide for my family and handle my daily responsibilities. I’m not willing to go balls out all the time as that’s the surest course to getting hurt. I can, however, try to manage the risk so that the likelihood of getting hurt is minimized, which may mean that I accept a slower rate of improvement in my chosen avocation. So be it. But the longer I can do it without getting hurt, the further I will go.

[quote]skidmark wrote:
streamline wrote:

I totally agree with you Colin. It’s about passion. Your passion is football and mine is speed blading. Both of which can cause some very serious injuries. Yet I could not for the life of me stop. That would be like committing suicide.

It’s like that saying “It is better to have loved and lost, than to have never loved at all”. I would much rather injure myself living life to the fullest than live in fear of what may happen. Live is for living the rest can wait until I die!

Well - I’m all for passion, but I think it needs to be tempered by some good sense. This is a hobby, after all. Injuries are to be avoided as much as humanly possible, especially if one wishes to continue to succeed and progress in one’s past-time.

I have to keep myself healthy so I can continue to provide for my family and handle my daily responsibilities. I’m not willing to go balls out all the time as that’s the surest course to getting hurt. I can, however, try to manage the risk so that the likelihood of getting hurt is minimized, which may mean that I accept a slower rate of improvement in my chosen avocation. So be it. But the longer I can do it without getting hurt, the further I will go.[/quote]

I don’t expose myself to unnecessary dangerous situations. The nature of the sport has an element of risk. Mostly from wipeouts, but there are vehicles that cross my path. I can’t prevent shit from happening but I can prepare myself for all possible situations.

We don’t live in glass bubbles. Just going outside has a risk to it, but we still go out. We just prepare ourselves first, train our children to be safe and so on. It’s the same with sports, you train yourself so you don’t get injured. It is however still possible to get injured in both situations.

I love speed blading. If you take the speed out of it, there is nothing. Put the speed in and you add risk. The greater the speed the greater the risk. It’s like anything else the farther you push it the greater the risk. That’s what life is all about, over coming the risks that we encounter in our daily lifes. My life just happens to have more risks than most. So I train, hard, smart and intensely.

I am impatiently awaiting your decision.

HAHA - Sorry I thought I posted that!

I’m going to take 8 weeks and fix my imbalances and then attack the 500. I am also going to eat clean and continue the conditioning on non-weight bearing days.

I apprecaite all the great feedback!