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Looking for New Routine. Suggestions?

Basically, been on 5x5 for a couple years (on and off) and finally finished linear gains (SL and Madcow).

Ended up with 455x5 S, 295x5 B, 465x5 D. I went for 1rms and got 525/325/535. I am 5’8" 212 19% bf for reference.

What would be the best route to go on from this point?

Thanks.

I had also programmed 5x5 for an extended period of time but must admit that Wendler’s 5/3/1 is much more exciting in terms of noticeable progression. I find that it also allows me to focus a bit more on valuable accessory exercises than did the 5x5.

If your max data are not absolutely current, you might want to re-test your one-rep maxes (although you can also use a higher-rep max to calculate your 1RM) and then begin with the programme. There are lots of good resources at this website about 5/3/1.

[quote]SteveLopez wrote:
Basically, been on 5x5 for a couple years (on and off) and finally finished linear gains (SL and Madcow).

Ended up with 455x5 S, 295x5 B, 465x5 D. I went for 1rms and got 525/325/535. I am 5’8" 212 19% bf for reference.

What would be the best route to go on from this point?

Thanks. [/quote]

Your next stepping stone would be to use the dual factor or “advanced” 5x5.

The Westside Method

[quote]Chicksan wrote:
The Westside Method[/quote]

^^^^ Agreed

[quote]Reed wrote:

[quote]Chicksan wrote:
The Westside Method[/quote]

^^^^ Agreed[/quote]
This is also an option but its hard to run withiut training at the westside gym. Also the max effort work may start beating up on you.

I have ran it rather succefully for past 6 or so months and have never stepped inside of Westside Barbell. with that being said there is a insane amount of information you need to sit down and honestly read and read and do your best to understande and ask questions(I did research, listened to every seminar I could find, bought the Westside Barbell book of Methods and most of the video Westside sales on there site before ever starting the program).

So there ane many other programs that are not half as involved
when it comes to learning and performing but, if your willing to put in your time and are good at self teaching you can do just fine… Probably not as well as if you were at Westside but you can definetly make it work for you with out a doubt.

Also as long as you rotating ME exercises, Keeping your work reps over 90% limited to 2-3 reps (this works for me), and every 6-8 weeks have a Deload week your recovery will be fine as long as calories and sleep are in check.

[quote]Reed wrote:
I have ran it rather succefully for past 6 or so months and have never stepped inside of Westside Barbell. with that being said there is a insane amount of information you need to sit down and honestly read and read and do your best to understande and ask questions(I did research, listened to every seminar I could find, bought the Westside Barbell book of Methods and most of the video Westside sales on there site before ever starting the program).

So there ane many other programs that are not half as involved
when it comes to learning and performing but, if your willing to put in your time and are good at self teaching you can do just fine… Probably not as well as if you were at Westside but you can definetly make it work for you with out a doubt.

Agreed. If you are willing to put in the research and have all of the necessary equipment. I am assuming you have access to, most gyms do not.

Also as long as you rotating ME exercises, Keeping your work reps over 90% limited to 2-3 reps (this works for me), and every 6-8 weeks have a Deload week your recovery will be fine as long as calories and sleep are in check. [/quote]

Honestly I feel pretty strongly that you can perform the Conjugate method well with nothing more than few good bands(cost about $50 for a good set up) in the way of special equipment. There is a great program I used that utilizes west side without any of the Bands and what not until I was able to aquire the things needed. Ill try and find the write up and post it.

But the ME days are where most of your variations have to occur and with just a standard barbell set up you can make it work for example.

ME Lower Body Moves access only to a Standard Barbell
Good Mornings (Bent Leg,Straight Leg,Squat Good Morning)
Deadlifts
Rack Pulls
Squats ( Full,Front,Box,Zercher)

Thats 9 different exercises to cycle between using nothing but, a standard Barbell.
You adjust between close and sumo stance you know have 18 exercises to rotate through.
Then when you can add bands whether attached to the top of a rack or atleast to to the ground using a heavy DB and you have 36 exercise combinations to select from. Thats plenty to make a beginner conjugate method user grow and I didnt even touch Dumbbells something most gyms I have been to have

As for DE days Deadlifts and Full Squats if you dont have a box can effectively be used without accomadating resisatnce you just have to manipulate the percentages to make up for it.

[quote]Reed wrote:
I have ran it rather succefully for past 6 or so months and have never stepped inside of Westside Barbell. with that being said there is a insane amount of information you need to sit down and honestly read and read and do your best to understande and ask questions(I did research, listened to every seminar I could find, bought the Westside Barbell book of Methods and most of the video Westside sales on there site before ever starting the program).

So there ane many other programs that are not half as involved
when it comes to learning and performing but, if your willing to put in your time and are good at self teaching you can do just fine… Probably not as well as if you were at Westside but you can definetly make it work for you with out a doubt.

Also as long as you rotating ME exercises, Keeping your work reps over 90% limited to 2-3 reps (this works for me), and every 6-8 weeks have a Deload week your recovery will be fine as long as calories and sleep are in check. [/quote]

Im a huge nerd when it comes to learning about this method. I did an 800 mile trip 2 weeks ago in one day. Rather than listening to music or talking on the phone, I listened to the entire Tour De Force seminar on Youtube, a seminar given by Mr Dave Tate, covering everything about this method. Id like to recommened the two threads on this site as well. Ive learned more through STB about the method than pretty much anywhere else. Its really the only system Id recommend. Again, this is just my opinion though and lord knows there are stronger people than me on this thread. Hope this helps.

[quote]Chicksan wrote:

[quote]Reed wrote:
I have ran it rather succefully for past 6 or so months and have never stepped inside of Westside Barbell. with that being said there is a insane amount of information you need to sit down and honestly read and read and do your best to understande and ask questions(I did research, listened to every seminar I could find, bought the Westside Barbell book of Methods and most of the video Westside sales on there site before ever starting the program).

So there ane many other programs that are not half as involved
when it comes to learning and performing but, if your willing to put in your time and are good at self teaching you can do just fine… Probably not as well as if you were at Westside but you can definetly make it work for you with out a doubt.

Also as long as you rotating ME exercises, Keeping your work reps over 90% limited to 2-3 reps (this works for me), and every 6-8 weeks have a Deload week your recovery will be fine as long as calories and sleep are in check. [/quote]

Im a huge nerd when it comes to learning about this method. I did an 800 mile trip 2 weeks ago in one day. Rather than listening to music or talking on the phone, I listened to the entire Tour De Force seminar on Youtube, a seminar given by Mr Dave Tate, covering everything about this method. Id like to recommened the two threads on this site as well. Ive learned more through STB about the method than pretty much anywhere else. Its really the only system Id recommend. Again, this is just my opinion though and lord knows there are stronger people than me on this thread. Hope this helps.[/quote]

Ill definetly check those out. Thanks

Response…

5/3/1 looks nice, but I also want to keep progression as fast as possible for now.

Advanced 5x5 is definitely something I forgot about and I’m going to look into, thanks.

Westside is what I wanted to do, but I heard from a really strong dude that it’s a bad idea because it is hard to do without the right environment. And I also train at a 24 hour fitness.

Are these my only 3 options or is there something else that could fit the bill?

Thanks guys!

[quote]SteveLopez wrote:
Response…

5/3/1 looks nice, but I also want to keep progression as fast as possible for now.

Advanced 5x5 is definitely something I forgot about and I’m going to look into, thanks.

Westside is what I wanted to do, but I heard from a really strong dude that it’s a bad idea because it is hard to do without the right environment. And I also train at a 24 hour fitness.

Are these my only 3 options or is there something else that could fit the bill?

Thanks guys![/quote]

Your really strong friend is wrong. Im not being mean, not trying to start an argument, thats just a false statement. There is a thread on this forum dedicated to every system out there. WSB, Sheiko, Coan, Phillipi, Smolov, 5/3/1, 3/1/5, Juggernaut, 5x5, 3x3, every other number combination. They all work. Pick one and start reading

[quote]SteveLopez wrote:
Response…

5/3/1 looks nice, but I also want to keep progression as fast as possible for now.

Advanced 5x5 is definitely something I forgot about and I’m going to look into, thanks.

Westside is what I wanted to do, but I heard from a really strong dude that it’s a bad idea because it is hard to do without the right environment. And I also train at a 24 hour fitness.

Are these my only 3 options or is there something else that could fit the bill?

I’m not going to hold a gun to your head but the advanced madcow is probly your best bet for now. You could even try shortening it to two weeks loading two weeks peaking at first if you find it doesn’t work just use the 4 week version. There are many ways to manipulate the vokume on it and what not. That said westside and sheiko are probly the two most successful programs for powerlifting out there and maybe that newer reactive training systems.

Thanks guys![/quote]

[quote]Chicksan wrote:

Your really strong friend is wrong. Im not being mean, not trying to start an argument, thats just a false statement. There is a thread on this forum dedicated to every system out there. WSB, Sheiko, Coan, Phillipi, Smolov, 5/3/1, 3/1/5, Juggernaut, 5x5, 3x3, every other number combination. They all work. Pick one and start reading[/quote]

He also said this about the system,

"For a raw lifter, there’s not much of an advantage to Westside. The primary benefit of Westside to geared guys is that rotation of exercise allows people to handle super-maximal weights all the time. That’s a big deal in geared lifting. Unless you’re going suited, straps up every week (which no one does), your meet lift is a super-maximal lift. If, however, you’re using bands, chains, reverse bands, partials, weight releasers, etc. you can handle weights raw or in just briefs/in a loose shirt that feel similar on your back to lifts in full gear.

Using the conjugate method for unequipped lifting is just kind of silly. The stated reason is that using weights 90%+ for 3 weeks or more will lead to burnout and regression, so you have to rotate exercises to overcome this. That’s not entirely the case. People train (myself included) in the 90-95% range for long periods of time and progress nicely. The trick, as I’ve written before, is to limit arousal. Muscle recruitment gets you to about 80-85% of your max, firing rate gets you to about 93ish%, and emotional arousal is a sort of multiplier that takes you from 93ish% to 100%+. The physiological benefits of going to an unaroused max and a psyched up, true max is essentially the same. But you recover better, can train more frequently, and run less of an injury risk with the lower number. But if you’re not going to a true max, it’s not Westside.

Also, obviously, you have no reason to need to rotate exercises to keep super-maximal weight in you hands/on your back.

Westside is fun, no doubt, but the things that make it “tick” for geared lifting are simply non-factors for raw lifting."

He lifts in the 220 class and has a 1700+ total. He’s natural and also only competes in tested meets.

[quote]SteveLopez wrote:

[quote]Chicksan wrote:

Your really strong friend is wrong. Im not being mean, not trying to start an argument, thats just a false statement. There is a thread on this forum dedicated to every system out there. WSB, Sheiko, Coan, Phillipi, Smolov, 5/3/1, 3/1/5, Juggernaut, 5x5, 3x3, every other number combination. They all work. Pick one and start reading[/quote]

He also said this about the system,

"For a raw lifter, there’s not much of an advantage to Westside. The primary benefit of Westside to geared guys is that rotation of exercise allows people to handle super-maximal weights all the time. That’s a big deal in geared lifting. Unless you’re going suited, straps up every week (which no one does), your meet lift is a super-maximal lift. If, however, you’re using bands, chains, reverse bands, partials, weight releasers, etc. you can handle weights raw or in just briefs/in a loose shirt that feel similar on your back to lifts in full gear.

Using the conjugate method for unequipped lifting is just kind of silly. The stated reason is that using weights 90%+ for 3 weeks or more will lead to burnout and regression, so you have to rotate exercises to overcome this. That’s not entirely the case. People train (myself included) in the 90-95% range for long periods of time and progress nicely. The trick, as I’ve written before, is to limit arousal. Muscle recruitment gets you to about 80-85% of your max, firing rate gets you to about 93ish%, and emotional arousal is a sort of multiplier that takes you from 93ish% to 100%+. The physiological benefits of going to an unaroused max and a psyched up, true max is essentially the same. But you recover better, can train more frequently, and run less of an injury risk with the lower number. But if you’re not going to a true max, it’s not Westside.

Also, obviously, you have no reason to need to rotate exercises to keep super-maximal weight in you hands/on your back.

Westside is fun, no doubt, but the things that make it “tick” for geared lifting are simply non-factors for raw lifting."

He lifts in the 220 class and has a 1700+ total. He’s natural and also only competes in tested meets.[/quote]

The same argument Ive heard and raed about for years, yet people who lift raw, who are natural, who are drug free, still continue to use it and still continue to make progress. I am of no use to this thread anymore, good luck with your training.

[quote]Chicksan wrote:

[quote]SteveLopez wrote:

[quote]Chicksan wrote:

Your really strong friend is wrong. Im not being mean, not trying to start an argument, thats just a false statement. There is a thread on this forum dedicated to every system out there. WSB, Sheiko, Coan, Phillipi, Smolov, 5/3/1, 3/1/5, Juggernaut, 5x5, 3x3, every other number combination. They all work. Pick one and start reading[/quote]

He also said this about the system,

"For a raw lifter, there’s not much of an advantage to Westside. The primary benefit of Westside to geared guys is that rotation of exercise allows people to handle super-maximal weights all the time. That’s a big deal in geared lifting. Unless you’re going suited, straps up every week (which no one does), your meet lift is a super-maximal lift. If, however, you’re using bands, chains, reverse bands, partials, weight releasers, etc. you can handle weights raw or in just briefs/in a loose shirt that feel similar on your back to lifts in full gear.

Using the conjugate method for unequipped lifting is just kind of silly. The stated reason is that using weights 90%+ for 3 weeks or more will lead to burnout and regression, so you have to rotate exercises to overcome this. That’s not entirely the case. People train (myself included) in the 90-95% range for long periods of time and progress nicely. The trick, as I’ve written before, is to limit arousal. Muscle recruitment gets you to about 80-85% of your max, firing rate gets you to about 93ish%, and emotional arousal is a sort of multiplier that takes you from 93ish% to 100%+. The physiological benefits of going to an unaroused max and a psyched up, true max is essentially the same. But you recover better, can train more frequently, and run less of an injury risk with the lower number. But if you’re not going to a true max, it’s not Westside.

Also, obviously, you have no reason to need to rotate exercises to keep super-maximal weight in you hands/on your back.

Westside is fun, no doubt, but the things that make it “tick” for geared lifting are simply non-factors for raw lifting."

He lifts in the 220 class and has a 1700+ total. He’s natural and also only competes in tested meets.[/quote]

The same argument Ive heard and raed about for years, yet people who lift raw, who are natural, who are drug free, still continue to use it and still continue to make progress. I am of no use to this thread anymore, good luck with your training.[/quote]

^^^\ Agreed. It sounds like you didn’t really come here to ask for advice about a new program from what I can tell you obviously have your mind already made up. Also why if you wont even consider running a program that people suggested because what your big friend said would you even ask us. Obviously his opinion means more than ours to you so why not ask him what will waork for you because obviously he knows much more than Louie Simmons ( who has trained many RAW lifters to great success ).

Another option…
http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_body_training_performance_bodybuilding_strength/matt_rhodes_531_hybrid?id=5302657&pageNo=1