T Nation

Looking For A Direction


Ok, I have been bulking since late august and have gained some considerable mass, and as expected a good deal of bodyfat along with that. I am 5?10 230lbs about 20%bf with a 38 inch waist.

During this time I followed JB?s massive eating, exactly at first, but I just was not gaining any weight, so I upped the calories to about 5000 and was not as clean with the diet. Here is an example of the meals I normally consume.

                            Meal 1-9 whole eggs, 2 pork sausage patties, a couple cups of oats, with some whole milk					            **workout***(followed by Surge)	

			  Meal2- potato, low fat yogurt,, couple cups of oats, couple scoops of Metabolic Drive

Meal3- 2 pieces of chicken(not sure about weight, but they are pretty big), potato some veggies(usually broccoli and carrots)
Meal4- piece of steak, cottage cheese, olive oil, whole milk, veggies

Meal 5- 2 lean hamburger, olive oil, cottage cheese, whole milk

Meal6- same as meal 6
One of the reasons I stayed away from a very clean bulk is simply because I do not gain as much mass, but I am starting to get worried about the considerable amount of bf I?m getting along with it, and the not so healthy food I?ve been consuming .

I?m not where I want to be in terms of mass yet, (I espically want to broaden my shoulders out a bit before I diet, maybe around 240lbs) so I am hesitant to cut.

Should I ignore my instincts and lean out for awhile? Or should I ignore all the fat, get up 240, then cut down? And please note I am not worried about my pretty little ab definition, rather I just don?t want muscle gains to be smaller than fat gains.
NOTE**-I have more hamburger than steak and other red meat strictly for financial reasons.

Training info: I just finished up AofW, QD, and WM, and I plan to take on ABBH 1 while supplementing 8 weeks to monster shoulders. Do you guys recommend that I start doing some slow paced cardio on off days if I continue to bulk?

I know this post may be annoying to some of you, but I?m just looking for a little guidance. Thanks in advance.


It actually doesn't lookk bad, but i would have your carbs as soon as you get up, then veggies the rest of the day except post workout.

how long after working out are you eating, that's probably one of the most important times to consume carbs, as in white potatoe, white rice, protein drink with hi carb in it. a little cardio will probably be fine for you.


It depends on your comfort level. I happen to be uncomfortable when my waist (at the umbilicus) is starting to measure more than 38/39 inches and I know it's time to cut but that's me. I just find that I will gaining more fat than muscle at this point.

You could go for a gradual lean out phase detailed in Thibaudeau's latest article as to minimize muscle/strength loss. That's what I'm doind currently. It's more of a body recomposition than cut cycle. Then I'll bulk again.


Well I usually have the carbs during breakfast and during two post workout meals. should I only have one PWO meal? I thought it would be good to have two because then I could have two solid P+C meals.

I have half of my Surge during my workout and half of it like 10 min after my workout(after I shower up and shit)I have my first P+C 45 min after the Surge, and then another P+C meal an hour and half after that.

Is my timing way off? I get worried when I workout later in the day and the P+C meals are consumed at night. Again, your input is greatly appreciated.


                                       Are you refering to CT's bulk up cut up program, because I didnt read anything about a leaning phase in there. If this aint it, do have the link to this article?


i think he's talking about the carb cycling one... just search for it.


your first PWO meal is fine your second should be about 45 minutes after your first. You won't need as much P&C for your second PWO meal. I like shooting for 50gx50g first meal, 30gx30g second meal. This is when your body really wants it to repair, recover, replenish and grow.


And if you do workout at night still have the P&C even thou you will be going to bed soon, your body still needs it. I know the norm is not to have carbs late at night to keep BF down, but the positive outweighs the negative.


Yup, just found it. Thanks


Yeah...that's the one.