T Nation

Looking at Osteoporosis at 19...


#1

Well i am just falling apart.

Im 19 years old with a whole host of problems.... mainly endocrine and the consequences that go with it. (low test, high cortisol, high ACTH, high estrogen, low GH & IGF-1, hashimotos thyroiditis (hypothyroidism). also with some kyphosis.

In march i was put on some corticosteroids injectables for inflammation in my knees. well the pharmacy messed up big time and gave me a huge dose in the vials which was mislabeled as being a much smaller dose anyway i got severe side effects after 4 weeks of use of extreme weight gain, shortness of breath, heart palpitations etc. and ivet been sick as a dog ever since. Don't worry i am suing the pharmacy for this and will get what i deserve.

I recently did a bone mineral density scan and my mineral density is just in the acceptable range. I've been having bone pain/clicking and cracking of joints and its just scary at such an age. I have a particularly low bone mineral density in my spine. It just feels like a bone could fracture any moment.

I did an endoscopy and gastritis was found. I also did a blood test that proved i had candida infections.

I have also been getting sick a lot with stomach flu's, mucous congestion in my nose, ears and throat, candida infections and so forth. My skin is now very elastic and bruses easily ive also had a lot of muscle loss and soreness of muscles. and for the past 2-3 months nearly everyday i would have long periods of shortness of breath and chest pain which was all cleared by my cardiologist and chest specialist so its all due to the high cortisol levels i have and possible pituitary adenoma from the high ACTH production.

anyway im about to see my endo in a week i did a 24 hour urinary cortisol and ACTH stimulation test and she will decide what to do. I will need to be put on TRT asap and i will try to convince the endo to use HCG (from a study ill bring to her) to salvage my testicles and AI which is must to control Estrogen (although i already hav a script for arimidex from another doc which is good).

Im also about to do an MRI to check for tumors.

Does GH replacement improve my bone mineral density? if it does i would ask my endo to place me on replacement doses if not i will just be on some biphosphonates. I really want my to improve my bones as soon as possible i a m taking vitamin D, calcium and glucosamine/chondroitin.

I also seem to be losing my sense of touch, does anybody know what the reason for this could be???

Dont really have a lot of questions just looking for some support guys, i kno im 19 but the steroid forum isnt the place to post this so i thought this would be a good place since you discuss TRT and general health on here as well.


#2

Have a look at this thread. There was an individual, 4est, who helped a boy with many of your issues.

http://www.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/blog_sports_training_performance_bodybuilding_alpha/the_150lber?id=2126987&pageNo=1

What is your diet like at the moment?

Candida and general inflammation responds well to simply dropping wheat-based refined carbohydrates and high fructose corn syrup from your diet and sticking to meats, fruits, veggies (more veggies than fruits) and water as much as possible. No sweetened drinks, even artificial sweeteners can exacerbate the problem.

Note - I’m not a doctor nor a PT, but these things have worked for others with similar problems as yours.

edit:

Oh - and fish oil for the Vitamin D and cellular wall improvement. Your body’s only as healthy as it’s cells. Throw some olive oil and wheat germ oil into the mix too.

Vitamin D has an indirect role in regulating the thyroid by affecting the pituitary gland which then produces the thyroid hormones (if I remember correctly). It also works in conjunction with calcium and magnesium in laying down bone from what I’ve read, though there are others on this forum who are more knowledgeable than I on hormonal subjects. I’d welcome any correction from them as a matter of fact as I don’t want to steer someone wrong on the subject of hormones.


#3

I dont have any advice but I am sorry to hear this and Ill be prayn for ya.
God bless Lonnie


#4

Oh yea way ahead of you on the candida…

Im on a higher fat/protein diet with low to no carbohydrates and energy is great.

Veggies, fish, meats, EFA’s, nuts, almond meal etc…

And anti-candida supplements like MCT oil, garlic, olive leaf extract, dandelion root. Also on a high dose pro-biotic, digestive enzymes with meals, psyillium husk to clean out the bacteria and keep me regular.

I’ll look into that thread.


#5

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#6

As far as GH goes i dont think that will happen as far as replacement goes.

TRT will help me tremendously controlling my E2 and using HCG in conjuction with TRT. Also beginning Thyroid replacement again.

My present extremely low GH is probably due to the high cortisol and high ACTH (im suspecting a pituitary adenoma) and high E2, once i start treatment i think this will improve also.

I good resolution it will be, im not giving up without a fight :wink:

bushido does arimidex lower bone mineral density or is bone mineral density effected negatively only by very low E2 levels? Also does Arimidex suppress the immune system in anyway?

and any idea why i could have less sense of touch now? this is really puzzling :confused:


#7

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#8

I mean less sensation in general in both the hands and feet and everything i touch even if i say touch my shoulder against something the feeling isnt as strong as before.

For example i can get a knife and press against my skin and it takes awhile before pain is achieved.


#9

I mean less sensation in general in both the hands and feet. And everywhere in the body. I tested this by pressing the tip of a knife against my skin and it took a while before i noticed pain. I had much more sensation at the start of the year and it just doesn’t feel right if you know what i mean.

Also the sole of my foot is a lot smaller/thinner than before and i starting to have balance problems. All my joints/bones feel off, they are clicking and cracking and i have started having pains in my knees if standing too long and my pelvic bone.

And when pressing some bones in my legs they feel very tender. The endocrinologist said everything is fine with the bone mineral density but you know doctors their idiots and she is yet to write a report so i know my T score… i wouldn’t be having these symptoms if everything was fine now would i?

All she said was “everything is fine… you have a low normal density in your spine but its still within the normal limits.”


#10

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#11

TRT is needed to restore collagen production. Low collagen causes bone loss. Restoring and balancing hormones can improve immune system. Catabolic effects may be weakening your skin, but also breaking down other internal membranes such as your mouth.

hGH and testosterone are would be synergistic in many ways.

Get on TRT now as an emergency procedure. Your skin is a mess and you may not absorb transdermal T. You need injections as this is the only dose certain delivery system.

Eugene Shippen, 1998, published that an account of a guy who had to be on massive amount of prednisone. He lost 1.5" of height. T was used to stop the shrinking and stabilize bone mass. Also about a doctor who combined testosterone with prednisone to prevent problems, in men and women. … corticosteriods decrease testosterone … shuts down DHEA production … also recommends vitamin-D when predinone is used … suggests that predisone can lead to bone death … associated loss of collagen from bone matrix as a major cause of bone loss.


#12

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#13

[quote]MetalMX wrote:
As far as GH goes i dont think that will happen as far as replacement goes.

TRT will help me tremendously controlling my E2 and using HCG in conjuction with TRT. Also beginning Thyroid replacement again.

My present extremely low GH is probably due to the high cortisol and high ACTH (im suspecting a pituitary adenoma) and high E2, once i start treatment i think this will improve also.

I good resolution it will be, im not giving up without a fight :wink:

bushido does arimidex lower bone mineral density or is bone mineral density effected negatively only by very low E2 levels? Also does Arimidex suppress the immune system in anyway?

and any idea why i could have less sense of touch now? this is really puzzling :confused:
[/quote]

This may be a first: Munchhausen’s syndrome by internet.

Note:

In his August posts, his cortisol is low. Now it is high.

If it were real, he would take his story back to his endocrinologist and get screened for autoimmune polyglandular syndrome, and stop asking for complex medical advice on a training website.

Diagnosis: Troll, until proven otherwise.


#14

Munchhausen’s syndrome hahaha thats a funny disorder.

Bushido Bone mineral density was tested via Dual energy X-ray absorptiometry (DEXA Scan)

DrSkeptix this all started 3 months ago with severe symptoms before this i NEVER had any symptoms like the ones i am having now.

All this happened due to the use of the corticosteroids i injected which till this day i don’t know the dosage given to me. These we’re huge doses from the symptoms i had from them, cortisol was kicking my ass left and right and still is. And now i have possible permanent damage to my body so i’m just trying to fix that.

Go to the endo? its not that easy they just won’t see you… i have called millions of times telling her what im experiencing and the best i could do was get the appointment on the 20th of this month which is a few days away.

MRI no it still hasn’t been done… why a fucking nineteen year old like me has to be the doctor is beyond me, i will do this ASAP once i see her no more fucking around i’m sick of this.

Cortisol was never low DrSkeptix it was only a suspicion. It was confirmed as high in several blood tests both urine, blood and saliva as well as ACTH.

"Catabolic effects may be weakening your skin, but also breaking down other internal membranes such as your mouth. " - yes KSMan i noticed skin peeling off from the inside of my mouth a fair amount. And constant stomach problems like not being able to eat meat anymore i just cant stomach it… and only eating soft/easy digestable foods.

I have lost about 13kgs in the past 2-3 months without trying and im constantly eating something even at night i wake up 3 times at least to eat which has been happening for the past 3 years.

bushido IGF-1 and GH are low, the pituitary is fucked MRI will shed some more light on this.

22/09/08
Morning 8am:

Cortisol: 510 (200-400)
ACTH: 15.7 (2 - 12)
Free T4: 13.7 ( 12 - 22)
TSH: 7.806 ( 0.5 - 4.00)

IGF-1: 33.5 - not sure of range but also low with an *
GH: 0.8 (0 - 15)
SHBG: 54.1
Prolactin: 13.9 (2 - 17)
Testosterone: 9.1 (12 - 32)
Estrogen: 72 (12 - 53)
Vitamin D: 48 nmol/L - yes i dont get enough sunlight which i am trying get a lot more of now.

atherosclerosis no i dont think so. I have had an ectocardiogram is way fine. “Insufficent mitral valve prolapse was found but too little to be experiencing any symptoms also slight valve regurgitation either mirtal or aortic im not sure but doc told me too little to be causing problems/symptoms”. Also did a ectocardiogram then did a cardio stress test for 10minutes on a treadmill then went back on the ecto this was done by a private cardiologist and he said the heart looks good and that my chance of having a heart attack was 1 in 10,000.

My blood sugar is always on the low side and my cholesterol HDL, LDL, VLDL etc are all also LOW under range.

autoimmune polyglandular syndrome i will look into thanks… sounds like me… recurrent candididal infections, endocrine abnormalities and adrenal problems.

In regards to peripheral neuropathy can cortisol cause nerve damage?? My symptom is definitly less pain and feeling/sensation when touching/holding objects etc…

Basically if you sum me up its:

  • Endocrine problems
  • Candida problems
  • Gastrointestinal
  • And possibly immunological since cortisol is immunosuppressive i just tested the IMG immunoglobulins for the first time and will know the results in a day or two

#15

I just want to be HEALTHY and NORMAL for christ sakes!!! and be back in the gym training hard getting big and being happy and living my life.

I cant work, study, drive, socialize, or go out and do much without having joint problems now, i feel like a god damn 90 year old senior citizen.


#16

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#17

Well… the endo was a complete waste of time.

Saying “your low-normal testosterone is within the normal range and we only treat it if the testosterone level is under 8.0 consistently. Also you seem to have facial hair and be well androgenised, we run under strict medical guidelines”

Note: my levels we’re 10.1 and around the same everytime tested for the past 2 years!!!

She then said"

“well their are no real benefits besides a placebo effect and their are side effects”

Ok… so what are the side effects?

“Uhhh Acne, mood swings”

She then basically didn’t know anymore side effects LOL!!!

I then smashed the bitch in the face and wrote myself a few hundred scripts for test :smiley: :smiley: :D.

No, no but seriously im not going to ever see an Endo EVER again in my life a complete waste of time.

The symptoms im having i strongly believe are from poor blood circulation or some kind of vascular disease including the shortness of breath, freezing hands and feet and numbness, mental foggyness/slow thinking, loss of appetite, heart palpitaitons, chronic fatigue, swelling in certain parts of the body, dizziness/lightheadedness, joint pain/difficulty walking sometimes due to this and the joints feelin odd… i just don’t know WHY this is happening.

I have another doctor who is willing to prescribe testosterone but he has sent me to a neuroimmunologoist so he can do an MRI to rule out brain problems/pituitary tumors.

Thing is i have testosterone cream and arimidex + T3/T4 already but when i take arimidex or T4/T3 i feel very unwell and even more short of breath and the testosterone cream by itself raises my E sky high and my gyno gets worse so i cant do anything at the moment… and i’m not sure T replacement will solve everything.

Im also going to do a sleep study for the night for my constant waking up 3-4 times per night for the past 3 years.

I did a 24 holter monitor and i had:

Sinus bradycardia 32 BPM at 3am…

Sinus Tachycardia 128 BPM at 6pm…

Sinus arrhythmia

So far these are the things found:

Hashimoto’s thyroiditis (hypothyroidism)
Other Endocrine problems Low T, High E, High cortisol & ACTH, Low GH & IGF-1.

  • Low Iron (always had low iron also)

Echocardiogram -“insignificant” mitral valve prolapse

Echocardiogram -“insignificant” mitral valve regurgitation

Blood work - Low Cholesterol (always been low for me)

24 hour holter monitor -

Report: The predominant rhythm was sinus.

Rare atrial extrasystoles: <3/hour.

Frequent (43%- of total trace) periods of sinus bradycardia, min. rate =31
bpm, at 06:18am.

Occasional periods of sinus tachycardia, max rate =118 bpm, nocturnally at
03:53am.
Frequent periods of sinus arrhythmia.

Max R-R interval was 2 sees and average heart rate was 59 bpm.
No significant supraventricular and ventricular arrhythmias were noted
during 24 hour monitoring.

Endoscopy - mild inflammation of the small intestine

CT Chest scan - “a little residual thymic tissue in the anterior mediastinum, within normal limits for the patient’s age. Small left kidney 9.5cm (globally contracted), right kidney 13.5cm”

Blood work - Highly elevated IgE levels of 3810… range 0 - 100

Blood work - Consistently elevated Lymphocytes

Blood work - Coagulation problems seen on blood tests (not sure if high or low)

Coagulation Studies, 26/08/08 -

PT - 14.8 sec (12.0 - 15.0)
APTT - 35 sec (25 - 37)
INR - 1.1 (0.9 - 1.2)

Coagulation Studies, 01/09/08 -

PT - 15.6 * (12.0 - 15.0)
AAPT - 34 sec (25 - 37)
INR - 1.2 (0.9 - 1.2)

Nuclear antibodies pattern - No ANA Detected
Nuclear antibodies Titre - <40 titre
Rheumatoid factor - <21 IU/ml (rheumatoid arthritis ruled out)

Blood gases (Gas sample Type - Arterial):

                                          02/09/08     -      01/09/08

FIO2 21% Not Available
pH 7.43 7.47 * (7.36 - 7.44)
p02 110mmHg * 43mmHg * (80 - 100)
pCO2 39 mmHg 42mmHg (35-45)
02 Saturation 99% 81% * (95 - 99%)
Actual bicarbonate 26 mmol/L 30 mmol/L (22 - 30)
Base excess 2 mmol/L 6mmol/L * (-2 to 2)

Dopamine, Urine

624 nmol/d - ( 400 - 2600 )

Catecholamines, Urine

Noradrenaline - 63 nmol/d ( 45 - 680 )
Adrenaline - 19 nmol/d ( 5 - 80 )

KSMan, bushidobadboy maybe you guys have a clue whats up… the most noticable thing is when my hands and feet get cold these symptoms begin to manifest so definitely a circulation problem. Yeah nuts how much testing their is… all with nothing really from these doctors. And as i said this ALL started 3 months ago suddenly never before have i ever had any of these symptoms in my life.


#18

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#19

You may be an adex over-responder. Your adex dose needs to change with changes to serum T levels. Suggest that you get some clomid or nolvadex to protect your gyno from E, resume TRT and find what small doses of adex that you can take.

Many of your symptoms are consistent with low thyroids levels. Take small amounts of T3/T4, small enough that you do not feel a reaction and see how you respond over time. You will need to slowly increase your dose. You problems are consistent with a flood of thyroid that would be a problem for anyone. Your body may be over-responsive for at first.

If you cannot get your thyroid levels under control, then nothing else will resolve.

Review your labs with this:

Cholesterol: Are you restricting dietary fats?

You may have pan hypothpituitarism.

Tell doctors that you want to be treated for your symptoms. Any muscle loss or signs of collagen loss - thinner skin, sagging skin etc. The guidelines for TRT should be age adjusted, not an aggregate lab statistical range.

Have you been tested for gut parasites? Common in your climate?

You may need to see a doctor who works with parasitic and tropical diseases. You immune system is seeing something. If you have problems with your gut, that also supports an infection of the gut.

I think that you need to work on your thyroid, T and E levels and find out what is causing your IGE level to be so high. The source may be loading you up with toxins.

“”"A cross sectional study was conducted in Jagapati Village, Bali to assess some characteristics of hookworm anemia among the adult population. Hookworm anemia was defined as an iron deficiency anemia in heavily infected individuals (EPG > 2,000).

WHO criteria for anemia and criteria of Hercberg for iron deficiency were used. In this study, 15 cases of hookworm anemia were found among 454 total samples (3.3%), or among 123 cases of iron deficiency anemia (12.2%).

The age varied between 16-69 years with male to female ratio of 1: 2.8. Twelve cases were found with symptoms and signs of anemia, 1 case with full blown hookworm anemia, and 2 cases were asymptomatic.

The hemoglobin level was found to be 4.5-12.9 g/dl, with 12 cases (80.0%) being classified as mild anemia, 2 cases (13.3%) as moderate anemia, and 1 case as severe anemia. The mean serum iron level was 39.6 mg/dl, mean transferrin saturation was 11.1%, and mean serum ferritin level was 9.6 ng/dl.

Hypoalbuminemia was found in 9 cases (60.0%), eosinophilia in 8 cases (53.3%), and low serum folic acid level in 5 cases (38.5%). High total serum IgE level was found in all but one case, with mean total serum IgE level of 3,739 U/ml.

The intensity of hookworm infection was moderate in 11 cases (73.3%) and severe in 4 cases (26.7%). It could be concluded that hookworm anemia was characterized by iron deficiency anemia with eosinophilia, high serum total IgE level, hypoalbuminemia and moderate to severe hookworm infection"""

You may also have picked up an alergy.

Specific forms of immune response that have been implicated in IBS symptoms include Coeliac disease and other Food allergy conditions.[44] Coeliac disease (also spelled “celiac”) is an immunoglobulin type A-(IgA) mediated allergic response to the Gliadin protein in gluten grains, which exhibits wide variety of symptoms and can present as IBS.

“Some patients with diarrhea-predominant irritable bowel syndrome (IBS-D) may have undiagnosed celiac sprue (CS). Because the symptoms of CS respond to a gluten-free diet, testing for CS in IBS may prevent years of morbidity and attendant expense.”[45] "Coeliac disease is a common finding among patients labelled as irritable bowel syndrome.

In this sub-group, a gluten free diet may lead to a significant improvement in symptoms. Routine testing for coeliac disease may be indicated in all patients being evaluated for irritable bowel syndrome."[46] Food allergies, particularly those mediated by IgE and IgG-type antibodies have been implicated in IBS.[47][48][49]

If an allergy, drugs to lower the immune response could be used. But doing that when there is an infection or parasite could be dangerous. Could corticosteroids have had such an effect, also elevated adrenals?


#20

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