out Carbs

AZMARKTB 2015-02-25 16:13:26 UTC #1

We Should Start an Over 45 Category

I am almost 47 years old and my physique is what I consider, Ok". But, I may be harsh on myself. My post is about carb intake. I have tried literally every known diet to man and just recently did the steak/eggs diet(no grains whatsoever) for 4 weeks. the results were upsetting.

I looked soft. I just got back from a weekend camping trip to Sedona, az and had a lot of carbs and came back leaner than when I left despite tons of beer and grains. What the fuck is my point? its I look leaner and feel tighter having grains in my diet but FEEL better without them. Conundrum!

DoubleDuce 2015-02-25 16:57:31 UTC #2

You may be confusing short and long term impacts. You may have looked better eating the carbs because you just replenished glycogen. Long term you may still end up leaner and better looking without the carbs. I seriously doubt you were actually getting leaner on beer.

EyeDentist 2015-02-25 17:14:04 UTC #3

After eating very-low-carb for a few days, muscle glycogen stores are depleted. For every gram of muscle glycogen lost, 4 grams of intramuscular water are lost along with it. This water-shedding is why people always lose a dramatic amount of scale weight the first week they go low-carb. Unfortunately, the loss of muscle glycogen and (especially) water often leaves the muscles looking 'flat' and 'soft.'

Once in a glycogen-depleted state, if you carb up (which you did), the muscles will quickly top off their glycogen stores. In doing so, they will re-acquire the water they shed during the low-carb phase, making them look fuller again. If you're dehydrated--which a weekend of camping (= increased insensible water loss) and alcohol (= a fairly potent diuretic) can do--the muscles will pull the glycogen-associated water they need from the interstitial space, which can leave you looking fuller (from increased muscle size) AND 'ripped' (from the loss of subQ water). Some BBers will manipulate carb and water intake pre-contest to exploit this effect. The diuretic effect of the alcohol will also cause a (temporary) reduction in BW as well.

Edit: Cross-posted with DD's comment above.

Powerpuff 2015-02-25 22:40:30 UTC #4

I believe in carbs. Carbs are true. In fact, I believe in all the macros.

Moderate carbs / moderate fats is a good way to just live life, IMO.
It's moderate so you can do it without thinking about it as "being on a diet."
It's fairly easy to eyeball once you know what's in the foods you eat.
I don't have to get really restrictive or eliminate most foods.
Treats in small amounts can generally fit my daily totals, If It Fits My Macros type of deal.

The Zone 30 pro/ 40 carbs/ 30 fat
Or even more like 40 pro/ 30 carbs/ 30 fat - I do fairly well somewhere between this and The Zone.
Or there's Dan Duchaine's 33 pro/ 33 carbs/ 33 fat.

ALL moderate carbs.

Personally, I don't feel good mentally or physically if I restrict carbs too much. I tend to get depressed. The research shows that women are more susceptible to depression on low carb diets, so that makes some sense in my case. I know some people do well on a low carb approach, but this is my experience. The only reason I'd think about getting more carb restrictive might be temporarily cycling to do a figure comp or something like that.

DoubleDuce 2015-02-25 22:54:52 UTC #5

Powerpuff wrote:
I believe in carbs. Carbs are true. In fact, I believe in all the macros.

Moderate carbs / moderate fats is a good way to just live life, IMO.
It's moderate so you can do it without thinking about it as "being on a diet."
It's fairly easy to eyeball once you know what's in the foods you eat.
I don't have to get really restrictive or eliminate most foods.
Treats in small amounts can generally fit my daily totals, If It Fits My Macros type of deal.

The Zone 30 pro/ 40 carbs/ 30 fat
Or even more like 40 pro/ 30 carbs/ 30 fat - I do fairly well somewhere between this and The Zone.
Or there's Dan Duchaine's 33 pro/ 33 carbs/ 33 fat.

ALL moderate carbs.

Personally, I don't feel good mentally or physically if I restrict carbs too much. I tend to get depressed. The research shows that women are more susceptible to depression on low carb diets, so that makes some sense in my case. I know some people do well on a low carb approach, but this is my experience. The only reason I'd think about getting more carb restrictive might be temporarily cycling to do a figure comp or something like that.

I hear ya. everyone is different. I personally find it much easier to eliminate something than to try to moderate it. Plus I feel better, more energy, better focus, est. Without carbs. Low carb + training I almost get a high..

Powerpuff 2015-02-25 23:10:08 UTC #6

DoubleDuce wrote:

Powerpuff wrote:
I believe in carbs. Carbs are true. In fact, I believe in all the macros.

Moderate carbs / moderate fats is a good way to just live life, IMO.
It's moderate so you can do it without thinking about it as "being on a diet."
It's fairly easy to eyeball once you know what's in the foods you eat.
I don't have to get really restrictive or eliminate most foods.
Treats in small amounts can generally fit my daily totals, If It Fits My Macros type of deal.

The Zone 30 pro/ 40 carbs/ 30 fat
Or even more like 40 pro/ 30 carbs/ 30 fat - I do fairly well somewhere between this and The Zone.
Or there's Dan Duchaine's 33 pro/ 33 carbs/ 33 fat.

ALL moderate carbs.

Personally, I don't feel good mentally or physically if I restrict carbs too much. I tend to get depressed. The research shows that women are more susceptible to depression on low carb diets, so that makes some sense in my case. I know some people do well on a low carb approach, but this is my experience. The only reason I'd think about getting more carb restrictive might be temporarily cycling to do a figure comp or something like that.

I hear ya. everyone is different. I personally find it much easier to eliminate something than to try to moderate it. Plus I feel better, more energy, better focus, est. Without carbs. Low carb + training I almost get a high..

If you aren't doing it like me, you're doing it wrong DoubleDuce.

Of interest, there's been more research about Intermittent Fasting and women tend to NOT handle it as well as the men either. I was kind of surprised at that since we have proportionally more fat and are more metabolically efficient (slower metabolic rate) than men. I'd have guessed the opposite would be true.

Take home message: Men and women - Not the same.

Seriously, there's going to be a lot of variation among individuals, right? I know women who like low carb, and IF. It's a good thing from a survival perspective that the human body is fairly adaptable/ flexible in terms of what will work.

DoubleDuce 2015-02-26 16:10:04 UTC #7

Powerpuff wrote:

DoubleDuce wrote:

Powerpuff wrote:
I believe in carbs. Carbs are true. In fact, I believe in all the macros.

Moderate carbs / moderate fats is a good way to just live life, IMO.
It's moderate so you can do it without thinking about it as "being on a diet."
It's fairly easy to eyeball once you know what's in the foods you eat.
I don't have to get really restrictive or eliminate most foods.
Treats in small amounts can generally fit my daily totals, If It Fits My Macros type of deal.

The Zone 30 pro/ 40 carbs/ 30 fat
Or even more like 40 pro/ 30 carbs/ 30 fat - I do fairly well somewhere between this and The Zone.
Or there's Dan Duchaine's 33 pro/ 33 carbs/ 33 fat.

ALL moderate carbs.

Personally, I don't feel good mentally or physically if I restrict carbs too much. I tend to get depressed. The research shows that women are more susceptible to depression on low carb diets, so that makes some sense in my case. I know some people do well on a low carb approach, but this is my experience. The only reason I'd think about getting more carb restrictive might be temporarily cycling to do a figure comp or something like that.

I hear ya. everyone is different. I personally find it much easier to eliminate something than to try to moderate it. Plus I feel better, more energy, better focus, est. Without carbs. Low carb + training I almost get a high..

If you aren't doing it like me, you're doing it wrong DoubleDuce.

Of interest, there's been more research about Intermittent Fasting and women tend to NOT handle it as well as the men either. I was kind of surprised at that since we have proportionally more fat and are more metabolically efficient (slower metabolic rate) than men. I'd have guessed the opposite would be true.

Take home message: Men and women - Not the same.

Seriously, there's going to be a lot of variation among individuals, right? I know women who like low carb, and IF. It's a good thing from a survival perspective that the human body is fairly adaptable/ flexible in terms of what will work.

I kind of have the notion that there are still the remnants of hunter-gatherers around. Hunter-gathers probably did a lot of IF. You wake up and there might not be anything to eat until you go out and kill it. So you wake up and go hunt the first part of the day. And your body knows that and makes you super alert and focused when hungry so you have a better chance to catch something. Then you eat a whole bunch and rest. People more genetically adapted to growing their own food might not do well that way.

Powerpuff 2015-02-26 18:26:59 UTC #8

DoubleDuce wrote:

Powerpuff wrote:

DoubleDuce wrote:

Powerpuff wrote:
I believe in carbs. Carbs are true. In fact, I believe in all the macros.

Moderate carbs / moderate fats is a good way to just live life, IMO.
It's moderate so you can do it without thinking about it as "being on a diet."
It's fairly easy to eyeball once you know what's in the foods you eat.
I don't have to get really restrictive or eliminate most foods.
Treats in small amounts can generally fit my daily totals, If It Fits My Macros type of deal.

The Zone 30 pro/ 40 carbs/ 30 fat
Or even more like 40 pro/ 30 carbs/ 30 fat - I do fairly well somewhere between this and The Zone.
Or there's Dan Duchaine's 33 pro/ 33 carbs/ 33 fat.

ALL moderate carbs.

Personally, I don't feel good mentally or physically if I restrict carbs too much. I tend to get depressed. The research shows that women are more susceptible to depression on low carb diets, so that makes some sense in my case. I know some people do well on a low carb approach, but this is my experience. The only reason I'd think about getting more carb restrictive might be temporarily cycling to do a figure comp or something like that.

I hear ya. everyone is different. I personally find it much easier to eliminate something than to try to moderate it. Plus I feel better, more energy, better focus, est. Without carbs. Low carb + training I almost get a high..

If you aren't doing it like me, you're doing it wrong DoubleDuce.

Of interest, there's been more research about Intermittent Fasting and women tend to NOT handle it as well as the men either. I was kind of surprised at that since we have proportionally more fat and are more metabolically efficient (slower metabolic rate) than men. I'd have guessed the opposite would be true.

Take home message: Men and women - Not the same.

Seriously, there's going to be a lot of variation among individuals, right? I know women who like low carb, and IF. It's a good thing from a survival perspective that the human body is fairly adaptable/ flexible in terms of what will work.

I kind of have the notion that there are still the remnants of hunter-gatherers around. Hunter-gathers probably did a lot of IF. You wake up and there might not be anything to eat until you go out and kill it. So you wake up and go hunt the first part of the day. And your body knows that and makes you super alert and focused when hungry so you have a better chance to catch something. Then you eat a whole bunch and rest. People more genetically adapted to growing their own food might not do well that way.

I'd think so. DD, It's off the original topic of this thread, but interesting from a survival perspective. I recently read Berardi talking about how women doing IF tend to have more trouble with symptoms of hormone disruption like loosing their period, as well as metabolic slow down. From a survival perspective, carrying a baby NOT optimal when food is scarce. Metabolism slowing down to conserve fat and energy also a good survival mechanism.

I don't know if I can link to it here, but for anyone interested, look up Paleo For Women Shattering the Myth of Fasting for Women: A Review of Female Specific Responses to Fasting In the Literature.

AZMARKTB 2015-02-26 20:46:23 UTC #9

eyedentist, you look good man. what's your ht/wt. ? what's your diet like?

Powerpuff 2015-02-26 20:51:33 UTC #10

AZMARKTB - Sorry to threadjack talking about other stuff, especially since this is your first post here.

You'll probably find more people talking about carbs, depleting carbs, cycling carbs, and macro percentages over in the Nutrition forum. Or search this site.

Most people here in the Over 35 forum have a power lifting focus. ALL THE MACROS!!!

EyeDentist 2015-02-26 21:28:07 UTC #11

Thanks AZ. 6'3", 186#. Re my diet, I've detailed it in a thread over in the Bigger/Stronger/Leaner subforum ('EyeDentist, how do you train?'). Hope you get a chance to stop by and check it out.

jjackkrash 2015-02-27 03:22:40 UTC #12

Damnit I want some pancakes.

HARA 2015-02-28 01:29:28 UTC #13

At 45 I get the most out of just eating clean. To be fair I care much more about what I lift in my weight class than what I look like on the beach.