T Nation

Lonnie's Training/Diet Thoughts and Log

Hey all, moving over here from the Indigo Logs to allow more people to join in on the convo.

Just started the 5/3/1 Boring but Big 3 Month Challenge.

Current plan is to make a final push for mass into the new year and then see what kind of damage I can do to my body fat in 12 weeks.

For those that haven’t seen my previous log, Unless something notable happens, I tend not to log my actual reps/set/weight/ blah blah blah. I find this rather boring to read in other logs, boring to write about, and just generally dont think many can use the info.

I like to write ABOUT the training and diet, ideas I have about it, and allow others to chime in. Hopefully it helps some people.

I programmed 5/3/1 with the following numbers, which are actually in the 80-85% range instead of 90% of 1 RM for the Training Max. These numbers allowed me to easily get 10+ reps on the 5+ week for all the lifts, and something like 5-8 on the 1+ week.

Press: 135
Dead: 305 (this is very light, but this lift was a bitch for me last time because I started too heavy and the 10 pound jumps caught up with me FAST in the cycle so I went super conservative this time)
Bench: 195
Squat: 215 (again, REALLY light for the same reason as the dead lift)

Cool, I’ll be following!

My last attempt at 5/3/1 was a bit of a clusterf%^k… I was still in body builder mode and felt the need to add X,Y, and Z to every session. I think I’m much smarter about training now a days, and after my success on CT’s Layer system I realize the value in hitting the main exercises haaaarrdd and then hitting the door.

As I am currently following the principles of 5/3/1, I’ll be Sticking to one main exercise obviously, one “big” assistance lift (doing Boring but Big challenge, so this is just a lower intensity version of the big lift) and then ONE supplemental exercise a session. In addition I’m doing some light neck work daily.

Have you done 5/3/1 in the past?

Other than your strength stalling out toward the end, how were the last few months of layers for you?

I did 5/3/1 in the past for a few months… As I said I was in “I must hit everything from 5 different angles” mode and just added way too much to the program.

Layers were and are great, but my new gym doesn’t lend itself well to doing 3/5ths of the lifts I was doing… So the decision was kind of made for me to stop using that system. Plus as I said I’d been pounding out most of my work in the 85+% range for a while now and am looking to see what a bit lower can do for me.

I’m in!

excited to follow along!

Thanks guys. I’m glad I could start this one so people who have been lurking my other blog unable to post can get in on the action.

Thoughts on “Boring but Big” so far:

  • 5x10 for 50% seemed WAY too light… But I am sticking with the program. What I am doing to make it challenging is to add a tad bit of “EDT” flavor and try to compete the 5x10 in less time than the previous week. This keeps the heart rate going for sure on Dead Lifts and Squats, and adds a layer of pressure that is missing if you just “get the reps.” This also gives the deload some “intensity,” instead of just doing an incredibly light day, there is some imperative to accomplish a goal.

My goal is 4 minutes, which seems doable. Did the squats today at 4:57, down from 5:36 the first week, so I have a good feeling I can do it by week 4.

  • 5x10 @ 70% sounds God awful … I await the challenge though.

I’d definitely be interested in reading about your current nutrition if you wouldn’t mind talking about/posting occasional updates on your macros, nutrient timing, intraworkout supplementation, any fasting days, experimenting, etc. I’ve always enjoyed your analytical style when it comes to food intake. Thanks Lonnie!

In! That 70% month is hell…

[quote]pwolves17 wrote:
I’d definitely be interested in reading about your current nutrition if you wouldn’t mind talking about/posting occasional updates on your macros, nutrient timing, intraworkout supplementation, any fasting days, experimenting, etc. I’ve always enjoyed your analytical style when it comes to food intake. Thanks Lonnie![/quote]

As I’m making one final push for a bit of size and strength over the next 3 months while I do 5/3/1 BBB, I’m generally a LITTLE bit looser with my tracking. However, I have been doing this so long, and I basically eat the same thing every day, that I “know” what I’m taking in without counting it.

In general I follow a meal plan (see page one of my Indigo log, its VERY similar to that for a variety of reasons) and then I add in extras on top of it like nuts, peanut butter, and MAG-10 pulses, or if my girl and I go out to eat I just stick to a low carb meal and dont worry about it. Think salad, omelettes, no-bun burgers, etc…

Having said that, My diet is the standard Anabolic Diet at this point, full 2 day carb up and all. This took me a while to build up to though. At first I started with a single high carb meal… then two… then a whole day… Then peri workout carbs the next day… Then post workout carbs, Then the full 2 days. This took about 1 year to transition into as I monitored the added carbs for a few weeks before I added more, but im a patient guy and it seems to be working.

I’d say high fat days are around 120-130 grams of fat and protein stays consistent in the 225-250 range. Carbs are “basically zero” except for whats in my green beans, avocado’s, and peanut butter. Mostly fiber. High carb days I basically try and flip the calories from carbs/fat… But honestly I dont track these 2 days, I just dont go crazy.

I’m blessed and cursed… It doesnt take many calories for me to add weight, 2400-2500 calories… Meaning I dont have to stuff myself all day long. But by that same token I dont have much room for error and my cals have to drop quite low to get shredded. I’m certainly not one of the guys on here dieting on 2500 calories and 300g of carbs a day (I’m looking at YOU TIM MCBRIDE!)

Periworkout is 1-2 scoops of Surge Workout Fuel with 3 scoops of MAG-10(1 scoop of upper days, 2 scoops on dead lift/squat days), and then I do a pulse of MAG-10 one hour after the workout. The SWF/MAG-10 combo is purely for cost reasons, and I would be doing PLAZMA if I could afford it… but its $9.75 a workout used at the recommended doses. I might experiment with doing Surge Recovery intraworkout again, as the price is even better there and the ingredients are still fast absorbing.

I’ll post a pic soon and weigh myself, but this basically allows me to stay lean and my strength has been going up for months now.

Over that same time period, I have SLOOOOWWWWLLLY dropped all the cardio from my program. I am very, very proud of this because I am basically able to stay lean completely through dietary manipulation at this point, which tells me I have kind of “mastered” that piece of the puzzle. Any extra body fat I’m carrying around is due to the “extras” I add on to my diet (mostly nuts and peanut butter) which I can easily take out and begin losing weight.

This also means that when I decide to lean out again (likely at the beginning of the year for 12 weeks) I am in a GREAT position since I can drop my calories ever so slightly, and add in a minimal amount of cardio and work up from there. Since I’m not already doing three 30 minute sessions or something, I have TONNNNS of room to add this in and make it work well for me.

Feel free to ask any questions about mine or your plans, I’m happy to talk about this stuff.

[quote]chobbs wrote:
In! That 70% month is hell…[/quote]

Now that I’m pushing for completing the 50% faster and faster, its actually quite hard by the last set. I can easily see the 70% taking twice as long.

I suspect I will be cursing the name Wendler soon enough (likely in our very own 5/3/1 forum it sounds like!)

[quote]Lonnie123 wrote:

[quote]pwolves17 wrote:
I’d definitely be interested in reading about your current nutrition if you wouldn’t mind talking about/posting occasional updates on your macros, nutrient timing, intraworkout supplementation, any fasting days, experimenting, etc. I’ve always enjoyed your analytical style when it comes to food intake. Thanks Lonnie![/quote]

As I’m making one final push for a bit of size and strength over the next 3 months while I do 5/3/1 BBB, I’m generally a LITTLE bit looser with my tracking. However, I have been doing this so long, and I basically eat the same thing every day, that I “know” what I’m taking in without counting it.

In general I follow a meal plan (see page one of my Indigo log, its VERY similar to that for a variety of reasons) and then I add in extras on top of it like nuts, peanut butter, and MAG-10 pulses, or if my girl and I go out to eat I just stick to a low carb meal and dont worry about it. Think salad, omelettes, no-bun burgers, etc…

Having said that, My diet is the standard Anabolic Diet at this point, full 2 day carb up and all. This took me a while to build up to though. At first I started with a single high carb meal… then two… then a whole day… Then peri workout carbs the next day… Then post workout carbs, Then the full 2 days. This took about 1 year to transition into as I monitored the added carbs for a few weeks before I added more, but im a patient guy and it seems to be working.

I’d say high fat days are around 120-130 grams of fat and protein stays consistent in the 225-250 range. Carbs are “basically zero” except for whats in my green beans, avocado’s, and peanut butter. Mostly fiber. High carb days I basically try and flip the calories from carbs/fat… But honestly I dont track these 2 days, I just dont go crazy.

I’m blessed and cursed… It doesnt take many calories for me to add weight, 2400-2500 calories… Meaning I dont have to stuff myself all day long. But by that same token I dont have much room for error and my cals have to drop quite low to get shredded. I’m certainly not one of the guys on here dieting on 2500 calories and 300g of carbs a day (I’m looking at YOU TIM MCBRIDE!)

Periworkout is 1-2 scoops of Surge Workout Fuel with 3 scoops of MAG-10(1 scoop of upper days, 2 scoops on dead lift/squat days), and then I do a pulse of MAG-10 one hour after the workout. The SWF/MAG-10 combo is purely for cost reasons, and I would be doing PLAZMA if I could afford it… but its $9.75 a workout used at the recommended doses. I might experiment with doing Surge Recovery intraworkout again, as the price is even better there and the ingredients are still fast absorbing.

I’ll post a pic soon and weigh myself, but this basically allows me to stay lean and my strength has been going up for months now.

Over that same time period, I have SLOOOOWWWWLLLY dropped all the cardio from my program. I am very, very proud of this because I am basically able to stay lean completely through dietary manipulation at this point, which tells me I have kind of “mastered” that piece of the puzzle. Any extra body fat I’m carrying around is due to the “extras” I add on to my diet (mostly nuts and peanut butter) which I can easily take out and begin losing weight.

This also means that when I decide to lean out again (likely at the beginning of the year for 12 weeks) I am in a GREAT position since I can drop my calories ever so slightly, and add in a minimal amount of cardio and work up from there. Since I’m not already doing three 30 minute sessions or something, I have TONNNNS of room to add this in and make it work well for me.

Feel free to ask any questions about mine or your plans, I’m happy to talk about this stuff.[/quote]

Good stuff! Do you notice any perceptible difference in energy level, pump, focus, etc. on your “zero carb” days as compared to zero fat? I’m also a big believer in doing minimal cardio during a gaining or maintenance phase, and using dietary manipulations as much as possible to stay within an acceptable body fat range, whatever that may be for the individual. Save as many fat loss bullets as possible for when you start dieting!

My interest in the various Biotest periworkout supplements has been piqued lately; they seem to be very highly thought of by quite a few posters that I respect. Obviously guys like JM and CT stand by the products, and I’m sure they work well, but I think it’s safe to say that those guys have a few other things going for them that some of us don’t, if you know what I mean. So hearing experienced natural lifters speak highly of a certain supplement makes it intriguing to me.

As a college student my budget for supps is pretty limited; I just stick to 40 g whey and a poptart pre and post workout, and 50 g gatorade with 15 g bcaa’s intra. If you were to recommend one of the Biotest workout drinks to me, knowing that I can’t spend more than $3 per workout on supplements, which would you consider the best bang for my buck? Obviously I’m not asking you to figure out the cost per session for each supplement, I can do that myself if I explore the options further, but I’m interested in your experiences with each. Thanks!

Nice

Are you spreading out your two carb days? I’ll do BBB again soon. I like the template where I just choose lifts for the 5x10 and push then fir a few cycles

[quote]Lonnie123 wrote:

[quote]chobbs wrote:
In! That 70% month is hell…[/quote]

Now that I’m pushing for completing the 50% faster and faster, its actually quite hard by the last set. I can easily see the 70% taking twice as long.

I suspect I will be cursing the name Wendler soon enough (likely in our very own 5/3/1 forum it sounds like!)[/quote]

I was going to warn you, 50% with short rest periods can definitely get hard fast. Good luck on the 70%, that does not sound fun.

[quote]pwolves17 wrote:
As a college student my budget for supps is pretty limited; I just stick to 40 g whey and a poptart pre and post workout, and 50 g gatorade with 15 g bcaa’s intra. If you were to recommend one of the Biotest workout drinks to me, knowing that I can’t spend more than $3 per workout on supplements, which would you consider the best bang for my buck? Obviously I’m not asking you to figure out the cost per session for each supplement, I can do that myself if I explore the options further, but I’m interested in your experiences with each. Thanks![/quote]

I am not Lonnie and this is not a Biotest recommendation, but you’ve pretty much got it nailed down in my opinion with the whey and BCAA.

But if I may add a few peices of advice:

  1. If you are not already, get the whey in bulk to save money
  2. If you can find dextrose, buy it, if you don’t mind the initial cost for a 50lb bag (around $25 to 30) it’s way cheaper for your sugar than the gatorade and poptarts.
  3. Consider creatine, it’s literally pennies for a serving.

[quote]timmcbride00 wrote:

[quote]pwolves17 wrote:
As a college student my budget for supps is pretty limited; I just stick to 40 g whey and a poptart pre and post workout, and 50 g gatorade with 15 g bcaa’s intra. If you were to recommend one of the Biotest workout drinks to me, knowing that I can’t spend more than $3 per workout on supplements, which would you consider the best bang for my buck? Obviously I’m not asking you to figure out the cost per session for each supplement, I can do that myself if I explore the options further, but I’m interested in your experiences with each. Thanks![/quote]

I am not Lonnie and this is not a Biotest recommendation, but you’ve pretty much got it nailed down in my opinion with the whey and BCAA.

But if I may add a few peices of advice:

  1. If you are not already, get the whey in bulk to save money
  2. If you can find dextrose, buy it, if you don’t mind the initial cost for a 50lb bag (around $25 to 30) it’s way cheaper for your sugar than the gatorade and poptarts.
  3. Consider creatine, it’s literally pennies for a serving.[/quote]
    Sorry for the derail Lonnie but Tim, I currently take 72 grams of dextrose with 8 grams of creatine intra workout while CBL so no carbs before my training other than nuts or green beans/carrots. Does this go along with my priority of strength/size?

[quote]browndisaster wrote:
Nice

Are you spreading out your two carb days? I’ll do BBB again soon. I like the template where I just choose lifts for the 5x10 and push then fir a few cycles[/quote]

2 carb days back to back, both training days.

[quote]timmcbride00 wrote:

[quote]pwolves17 wrote:
As a college student my budget for supps is pretty limited; I just stick to 40 g whey and a poptart pre and post workout, and 50 g gatorade with 15 g bcaa’s intra. If you were to recommend one of the Biotest workout drinks to me, knowing that I can’t spend more than $3 per workout on supplements, which would you consider the best bang for my buck? Obviously I’m not asking you to figure out the cost per session for each supplement, I can do that myself if I explore the options further, but I’m interested in your experiences with each. Thanks![/quote]

I am not Lonnie and this is not a Biotest recommendation, but you’ve pretty much got it nailed down in my opinion with the whey and BCAA.

But if I may add a few peices of advice:

  1. If you are not already, get the whey in bulk to save money
  2. If you can find dextrose, buy it, if you don’t mind the initial cost for a 50lb bag (around $25 to 30) it’s way cheaper for your sugar than the gatorade and poptarts.
  3. Consider creatine, it’s literally pennies for a serving.[/quote]

Thanks Tim. I buy my whey at Max Muscle, a local store in Lincoln. Not sure if there are any around you? While it’s not the cheapest, I’m a big fan of their customer service and products, and am hoping to receive a sponsorship from them for my contest prep next summer. I think I will take your advice and look for dextrose in bulk, the initial investment would be well worth it…a tub of Gatorade powder for 4 or 5 bucks doesn’t last long at all. I’d probably be best off using the dextrose pre and post instead of poptarts, but my periworkout s’mores poptarts with a cinnamon roll protein shake is one of the highlights of my day :). As far as creatine goes, I used it all throughout high school when I was lifting solely for sports performance, but haven’t for the last several years…I guess I just didn’t “feel” much of a difference from it and don’t feel as if my performance has suffered without it. But now that I think about it, I should know that just because I don’t “feel” a supplement doesn’t mean it isn’t still providing extra nutrients or a little something for optimal recovery, and for such a cheap price I can’t see any reason not to start using creatine periworkout again. Thanks for the advice Tim

[quote]timmcbride00 wrote:

[quote]pwolves17 wrote:
As a college student my budget for supps is pretty limited; I just stick to 40 g whey and a poptart pre and post workout, and 50 g gatorade with 15 g bcaa’s intra. If you were to recommend one of the Biotest workout drinks to me, knowing that I can’t spend more than $3 per workout on supplements, which would you consider the best bang for my buck? Obviously I’m not asking you to figure out the cost per session for each supplement, I can do that myself if I explore the options further, but I’m interested in your experiences with each. Thanks![/quote]

I am not Lonnie and this is not a Biotest recommendation, but you’ve pretty much got it nailed down in my opinion with the whey and BCAA.

But if I may add a few peices of advice:

  1. If you are not already, get the whey in bulk to save money
  2. If you can find dextrose, buy it, if you don’t mind the initial cost for a 50lb bag (around $25 to 30) it’s way cheaper for your sugar than the gatorade and poptarts.
  3. Consider creatine, it’s literally pennies for a serving.[/quote]

This is a sound recommendation. I love my Biotest goodies but I am well aware of how much it costs (which is why I make my own “poor mans Plazma” still with Surge Workout Fuel and MAG-10

If you cant even do that, you might consider just getting Surge Recovery and using it intra, as its about the same the thing really. I like this option a little better than straight whey because the BIG thing with intraworkout is that you want Hydrolyzed protein, because the digestion process diverts a ton of blood to the gut and with hydrolyzed proteins this doesnt happen.

Even MAG-10 by itself would be a worthwhile investment. One serving During, and if you can afford it one serving 1-2 hours later would be a good addition.

… And if you cant do any of it, dont sweat it. Plenty of people have gotten big and strong without it, although I am a believer that it helps.