T Nation

Longest Cycle?

Does anyone know roughly what the maximum length of time is you could stay ‘on’ for without permanently surpressing your bodies natural testosterone production? Mike Katz has mentioned in another thread he has done (i think it was) 20 weeks, and reported this to be very difficult to recover from, has anyone done longer and still managed to recover?All replies greatly appriciated, many thanks and happy holidays!!

The sad fact is that even 6 - 8 weeks can permanently change things. Not only is the fact that you are suppressing your natural hormone production, but your body gets used to having those supraphysiological levels and has trouble adjusting/ being sensitive to normal levels of natural test after. It might also have something to do with receptor up-regulation as well - as more receptors are created a higher supply of test is needed to bind with these, and your body can only produce so much…

I have seen numerous models proposing the correct action of the process you describe Prisoner. In most of the models, I would agree with what you have stated for the most part.

However, some models show that provided you take away the exogenous source, the “up-regulated” receptors would bind to inhibitors located in the cytoplasm of cells.

The absence of binding of T due to failed production should you inhibit the HPA axis seems to only inhibit the extra receptor release from the inhibitor and dimerization prior to binding of DNA-binding sequence of the receptor.

The problem that would arise, however, is that that bound receptor acts as a supressor to transcriptional activators for further T molecular actions. Still a bad thing.

I think the only thing that has been proven however in response to the original post is that it is entirely variable. I know some people who remain on for far longer than 20 weeks, yet still manage to “recover.”

[quote]buddaboy wrote:
Does anyone know roughly what the maximum length of time is you could stay ‘on’ for without permanently surpressing your bodies natural testosterone production? Mike Katz has mentioned in another thread he has done (i think it was) 20 weeks, and reported this to be very difficult to recover from, has anyone done longer and still managed to recover?All replies greatly appriciated, many thanks and happy holidays!![/quote]

Yes, it was tough to recover from, but keep in mind that I only used hcg the last 7 days of the cycle…If I could do it again, I’d have started the weekend hcg protocol after week 3.
This is why I do 10 weeks on followed by 7-10 weeks off depending on when a contest will fall.

MK

you could do a pub med search, the World Healh Organization has done a few steroid studies for a male contraceptive where they have injected testosterone for many months, supressing their own test and reaching a point of sterility.

Recovering, using anti-e’s, it all depends on the individual. Some bodybuilders have been on for years and fathered children, some quite a few. Others may end up with a low sperm count. There are probably many factors.

[quote]beerbarbq wrote:
you could do a pub med search, the World Healh Organization has done a few steroid studies for a male contraceptive where they have injected testosterone for many months, supressing their own test and reaching a point of sterility.

Recovering, using anti-e’s, it all depends on the individual. Some bodybuilders have been on for years and fathered children, some quite a few. Others may end up with a low sperm count. There are probably many factors.[/quote]

You are quite right. Everyone is different. Myself, I was on cycle for a full year (d/t competitions), using a weekend hcg protocol, and came off on hcg. My test levels came back into normal range but It was low normal. I can’t say how close that was to my normal test production as I never had it tested before my first cycle, however, and I know I was always a ‘hard gainer’ before AAS but I am sure it didn’t return to pre-roid - days normal.