T Nation

Long Time Lurker, First Time Poster. Introduction


#1

Hey guys, i must say, i have been reading obsessively on these forums and others regarding TRT, and all the associated risks, benefits, protocols.

So around January 2013, i stupidly took an oral steroid/pro hormone, I'm not sure exactly. It was from someone who was a bodybuilder and competed, so i trusted him (big mistake) . Anyway, after taking this for 2 months, i attempted to contact him for a pct, nowhere to be found. My options were limited, so i went with what i could get naturally, DAA basically. I never fully recovered, even after using clomid for a restart. However, i was in a decent range for a long time. 400-500 total test. But then recently, i began to feel the effects of the low T. my free test was tested and it was 49 reference lowest range was 46. I was losing interest in just about everything, my sex life was non existent, i was working out like i had always done , good diet, but i was LOSING muscle mass and strength.

I kept asking my primary care doctor and i always got the same response, well your in normal range so we cant treat you. (yea for a 60 year old diabetes patient maybe) I kept stressing that i was having theses low test symptoms, and eventually he agreed. He prescribed 200mg every 2 weeks.

Actual procotol: I never had any plans on injecting like that. I opted for SubQ, every 3.5 days starting with 50mg of test per injection. I had arimidex on hand because i do experience estrogen symptoms, even on DAA.

So i did this and after about 5 days, i noticed my BP had increased (i normally run 120/60 and i was in the 150/70) , and my HR had increased as well, i felt AMPED. It felt good, but it was too much. I also suffer from PTSD/Anxiety issues, which i felt was triggered by this. Over the next few weeks, it was a rollercoaster, High BP/ and Chest pounding feeling. I started to feel "pain" or discomfort, where my adrenal glands were. I started to have the symptoms of high cortisol (waking up at 3, cant go back to sleep) plus the kidney/adrenal "pain".

At one point i went to the doctor because i thought i had chest pain, high BP, turned out my BP was normal 126/60 and my EKG was normal. Anxiety. While at the doctors, he tested my TT which was 2 hours after a sub q injection of 50mg, and approx 1 week into my protocol. My TT was 950. This scared me, im not trying to go over here and i figured, maybe i would feel better in the 700 range. So i lowerd my dose to 75 mg a week, split into 2 doses. Then i lowered it again to 60. So now i am lowering it more to 25mg x 2 a week so 50 a week. I not that Bloowork will be the ultimate answer. which i have on 9/5.

Did anyone experience this adrenal overload or extreme stress high BP while on even moderate doses? I am looking to be normal. And if 25 mg a week is my starting point, thats fine with me. I have felt a decrease in the High BP and HR feeling over the last day. (i forgot to mention that i had the doctor put me on 5mg of lisinopril which is working.keeping me in the 127 systolilc range. So im hoping the lowered dose has helped. Tomorrow i inject 25mg so see if that brings me back to feeling a little more normal. I can always increase. Sorry if i rambled here. I will post labs as soon as i have them.


#2

What dose of AI are you taking and which AI?

Labs will help us. Not sure what to make of the anxiety. Most guys would love having TT of 950.


#3

I've been using Liquidex. When I started about 5 days after first injection, I felt major bloating in my hands and feet, nipples a little
Puffy, so I took .25, then again the next day I took .25 again, then again the next day and then I took .50 the last time, which dropped my E2 to <10 per labs. I tanked it, total rookie move. It's been three weeks since then and my morning wood came back, but I passed through the "sweet spot" so yesterday I cautiously took .12 of liquidex with good results. Had morning wood again. No increase in anxiety or HR/BP from using the AI. Besides tanking it, I feel I have a pretty solid idea of how E2 works now. My problem seems to be increased HR/BP which gets worse the day of and day after an injection, which makes me think it's just way too much for me. It has lessened since I have been lowering my dose.


#4

Most will do well starting anastrozole 1mg/week in divided doses. Some are over-responders who will crash E2 and need 1/4th the expected dose.

See these stickies found here: https://forums.t-nation.com/t/about-the-t-replacement-category/38/2?u=ksman
1. advice for new guys
2. things that damage your hormones
3. protocol for injections

Some with low adrenal or thyroid function do not do well as there bodies are not able to keep up with metabolic demands of restored T levels. There can be transient effects that would pass too. You may have been suffering from low E2.

50mg T twice a week
0.5mg anastrozole at time of injections
fine tune above as needed

Any dose change of T needs similar dose change of anastrozole.

Stop anastrozole for 5-6 days then resume at proper dosing.


#5

KSMAN

Thank you for responding. I am following the protocol that you are describing, and I am actually in the fine tune stage.

At 50mg twice a week, it was giving me horrible anxiety/BP/HR issues. I eventually got on Lisinopril which has kept my BP in check. (2 hours after a 50mg injection I had 940 TT, which im not sure if that was a semi trough reading or somewhat of a peak, but I figured since I injected sub q, that was probably close to the trough, and would increase as the day went on, possibly putting me over 1000 TT

Last week, I lowered my dose to 37.5mg twice a week for 75, still felt high, so on Monday I injected the same, and today I am anticipating injecting 25 mg, to see how I feel.

I think I should have started with 25mg twice a week and increase as needed. I feel like I have a decent understanding of my AI doseage.

I was definitely experiencing low E symptoms. Fatigue, weak erections, no morning wood) but I came out of those around 7 days ago. And have been monitoring my E symptoms since. Also, .5 is way too much for me, I felt reduction in E symptoms with as little as .12mg.

Never had any prior adrenal or thyroid issues before TRT. I'm really hoping these are transient symptoms. I was hoping for anyone on here that may have had a similar experience with regards to the heightened BP/HR and increase in anxiety/cortisol.

Thanks for your time.


#6

My BP/HR and anxiety issues have greatly resolved. I'm sure it was a combination of getting use to the higher T levels, the estrogen balancing act (and me tanking it) and the anxiety caused by both. I've been using 75mg a week for a few weeks now and it has seemed to bring my overall adrenaline/anxiety down. Feel much better. Now dosing 37.5mg test as well as .12 of arimidex at time of injection (Twice a week/ every 3.5 days). Hoping those feelings do NOT return! Might increase to 40mg if my symptoms are good. and after bloodwork on 9/5.


#7

Nice progress. Please keep in mind that Arimidex/anastrozole dose needs to match serum T levels. If you change T dose, change anastrozole dose by same factor to maintain same E2 level.


#8

I am definitely watching my intake of the Arimidex, and adjusting accordingly. Im using my morning and nighttime erections as a general guideline, as well as my thought patterns. When my E is high, I notice my thoughts get obsessive (thinking about problems with co-workers,neighbor). Ive been using .12 with injections and it seemed to keep it in control, but not in the sweet spot just yet, so I tried .25 with todays injection of 37.5mg test, and I will guage how I feel (and erection quality) over the next few days. Still waiting to do BW, and will post when I get it.

I did notice that last Friday, after my Thursday injection of 37.5 mg test and .12 arimidex, I felt amazing at work, slightly euphoric and great mood. But it didn't last more than 1 day, which makes me think that I had the estrogen in great control but over the next few days, it crept back up. I don't feel awful anymore, but I don't feel GREAT like I did on Friday, so im still fine tuning, but I feel like I have a better idea of what to look for now. Thanks for your support.


#9

Ok so i have some lab values. This is on 30mg sub q every 3.5 days. Stopped use of AI on 8/22 and have been using zinc/copper. (this is a trough reading. Injected Monday morning, this was taken Thursday morning, with injection in the afternoon)

Total Test- 880 ng/DL 240-871 ng/dl

Estradiol- 22 pg/ml 11-44 pg/ml

SHGB- 57 nmol/L 11-78 nmol/L (has always been high, went down from 8/1/16 where it was at 63)

Albumin- 4.4 g/dl 3.3-4.8 g/dl

TSH- 1.07 mcIU/ml .35-4.00mciu/ml

T4- 1.0 ng/dl 0.8-1.5 ng/dl

DHEA-S- 493 mcg/dl 160-449mcg/dl (this was checked because i was having some hypothyroid symptoms/adrenal symptoms, so we checked tsh/t4 and adrenaline labs, but those wont be in for a while. never had thyroid or adrenal issues prior to TRT

HGB-15.4 g/dl 14.0-18.0

HCT-46.7% 42-52%

Calculated free testosterone 14.3 ng/dl (doctor told me Free Test is inaccurate lab, better to do calculation) Befrore TRT this number was 10.4

I'll add the other labs once i get them, adrenal function as well as DHT. I know my SHBG is high, it always has been on the higher side. I am currently supplementing with Zinc50/Copper2mg, Magnesium 250mg Chelated, and vitamin D 1000iu (i know this should be higher and am going to purchase a 2000 IU capsule to supplement. . I know for a fact my vitamin D was lower, when it was first tested it was below range, then we did a booster Ergocalciferol and it went up to WNL, but still lower. I believe it was at 35, so i know i need to increase this. I saw that in addition to the other supplements i am taking, that Boron was shown to decrease SHBG. That is my next purchase. Any feedback would be appreciated.

I feel OK, slightly better than when i began TRT. Mood is definitely better, but im not feeling that euphoric, slight stimulant feeling that i DID experience for a short time. Erections are good, sex drive is OK, definitely there, but not raging. My gym has suffered because of my adrenal issues for now, but generally im able to lift fairly heavy and high intensity.

I also saw that eventually, higher TT will bring down my shbg, over months, possibly. There was a slight decrease in the month that ive been on. from 63 to 57