T Nation

Long Term TRT

Ok, my Doctor may give me the option to start TRT. I am 33 and my T is hovering just below 300 ng. I am feeling tired and worn out with no libidio. So, I guess, what I would request from this esteem group, is some advice. It is my understanding that once you start down the TRT path, it is a lifetime thing. However, I do want to have a family sometime down the road, so I don’t want to mess up my fertility. What do you guys think?

Androgel and then take Clomid every 3 months or so?

I want to go into my doctors office with as much ammo as possible to get on the right path.

first off,when was the last time you took ANY kind of steroid?
were your lh and fsh low as well?
if your sperm count was always good and you were fertile before ant steroid use,you shpuld’nt have any problems. after yout trt,use hcg for 2 weeks at 100 iu every mon-wed-fri alomg with clomid at 50 mgs perday;when done with the hcg,continue the clomid for another month(6 weeks total);that should be enough time to get fertile agin,provided you are only using t replacement dosages,not bodybuilding dosages.

I have never taken Steroids, so this will be the first time and I imagine that I will stay at TRT dosages. I have heard some “horror” stories that long term TRT may permanently shut down sperm production/fertility. Do you think it will be a good idea to do a short term cycle of hcg and clomid every six months or so, to make the “boys” stay awake.

I know how you feel. I too was low…(I wonder why?)Anyways, my doctor put me on 200ms of Depotestosterone every two weeks(I figured…free Test!!!), however, before I started this therapy we tried androgel and it didn’t do a thing for me. I rubbed that shit every fricking day without any visible affects. One more thing you need to consider, if you rub androgel on your shoulders as directed or on your ab area you run the risk of passing that on to your partner, something very important and something you’ll need to consider before starting. Talk to your doctor about this because he/she may not be aware of this…mine wasn’t and since then he has stopped prescribing it to his patients. Hope this helps.

E-Machine,

Did the androgel not affect your T or did you just not “feel” it? I guess everyone responds differently to the various treatments. I think I would rather give my self a shot every week or two rather than rub gunk on my everyday, but I will see what the Dr. says.

Here’s the funny thing about androgel. My lab results showed that my test was up - but I didn’t feel a thing. Androgel is very mild and only works for some people. Shots on the other hand seem to work better and not only will your lab results go up but you’ll feel it. Discuss the pros and cons of using androgel with your doctor and perhaps you’ll be able to get a shot every two weeks. My insurance only pays if I go into the office, and initially I was not very happy with that, however I had this very fine nurse give me the shots. No complains for me at all.

Hmmmm…what do you mean by “feel”? I am curious as to how raising test by inject is better that raising by androgel. That is interesting. So, if we assume that andgrogel and inject raises the test to the exact same level, the inject still “feels” better?

Also, do you use HCG?

Do yourself a favor and find a doctor who will get you testosterone from a compounding pharmacist. This testosterone is bio-identical and isolated from various extracts.
I was on Androgel for about a year and a half. For about the first 4 months or so, I felt awesome. Libido came back full force and stronger than ever. Unfortunately, after the four months was up, I started to gain fat, have horrible moods swings, started developing gyno, and became severely hypoglycemic. My estradiol levels really climbed, and my doctor was too stupid and didn’t want to do anything about it. If you do do any test replacement, make sure your doctor knows how to keep your estradiol in check. When I stopped the gel, it took about 4 weeks before I felt good again, and about 8 weeks total before my test levels were back up to normal again. For me, the withdrawal was much more comfortable than actually being on the drug.
A good alternate route to check out is to treat your adrenals. Adrenal stress can do awful things to your sex hhormones. Not to mention, if the adrenals are stressed out, you will convert much more testosterone to estradiol.

Hmmm…why did the Androgel stop working? Do you think if the Dr. kept you estradiol levels in check it would keep working?

What was a “normal” T level for you? Are you doing anything right now? From what I understand, if you go off of the TRT, you revert back to you old levels and you symptoms will come back…

while your tests levels are low, they are not horrible. Why not try just clomid or maybe clomid and low level arimidex. I say if your body is producing test and your goals are to try to get the levels a bit higher and feel better, then dont do something that will lower your normal levels. Also, clomid can help increase fertility.

Tallen,

I am not sure why it “stopped” working. I don’t think that it really did. My test blood levels slowly went down, while my estradiol went kept climbing. I didn’t realize how bad the estradiol was until I took a salivary hormone test…it should that my estradiol was ten times the normal upper limit for a male. This would explain my symptoms, even though my blood levels always came up normal.
My original test blood level was about 250. On the gel it hovered between 500 and 800 depending on the time of day.
Currently, I am not treating my low T directly. I lost 20 lbs of fat in order to get rid of some of the estradiol conversion. Seems to have worked. My test levels are still low, about 300 to 350, but I feel much better than before. At this time, I don’t want to try replacement again after my last experience.

Payneman, if you were under a doctor’s care why didn’t he prescribe Arimidex to get your estradiol under control? Also did you feel better during the first 4 months of your TRT or right now? In other words, if you body was at 800 Test with estrodiol under control, would that be better than now. I have symptoms of low test that I want to address, low libidio, lack of energy, fatigue, etc.

JT, how much would that affect my test levels? I was told that most people function between in the upper quadrant of normal, i.e. between 800 to 1000.

I belive average is 240-800, mine before steroids was 540 a few yrs back, nothing to brag about, but my sex drive was always great. I just had a horrible time adding muscle. I would imagine since you feel so crappy, you may have had higher t-levels at one point. I am not saying the clomid will definitely get it higher, or bring it to 800, but it is worth a shot before wiping out your t-levels.

Tallen,

I probably overall felt better while on the androgel during the first four months than I did now. That being said, I feel pretty good now still, and my blood pressure and lipids are much better.
My doctor did not prescribe arimidex because the medical practice is VERY conservative. Actually, in the area where I live (Boston), I have found that most of the MDs are very conservative. If I would have been offered arimidex I probably would have tried it, but the doc had no clue

Tallen I am currently taking androgel and to keep the estrogen at bay I also take Evista. It is basically a cousin if you will to Noladex. My overall test levels b4 the androgel were 201. Pretty damn low, after a few months of therapy my sex drive is once again what it was in my early teens. Yes I sais teens. I am 30 years old and took juice when I was in my early tewntys off and on through my later twentys. Androgel does not supress your own bodys testosterone so I am unclear on what others may report as far as their test reveal. Your test levels do return to baseline after 4 days of cessasion. As far as androgel being transferable to your partner all medical literature states this as so, however I have yet to have that problem with my wife and have used this since March 03. I ask my doctor about the fear of this and he said it was actually a very small chance. He is an endcrinologist so he deals with hormones all day long. I feel great and no longer need any help in the sexual department ( Viagra) and I have gained about 15 pounds of muscle since, so for me it has worked great, and for others it may not. It’s not juice so dont expect that type of “feel” or reaction, but if normalization is what you are after then I would give it a try. Make sure you get an antiestrogen with it as it does convert easily.

Pumpdogg,

Thanks for the insight. What are you test levels now? How much Adrogel do you use? Have you ever done injections? I am not sure I want to rub gunk on my every day…

Sorry for all of the questions, but I want to be armed when I meet with my Dr.

One other thing guys,

have you experienced more decisiveness or improved memory on TRT? I’ve read some posts on another forum where someone said indecisiveness is a symptom of low T…

Tallen I use 100mgs a day, but your bosy only absorbs 10 percent so u are getting 10mg’s a day.Also you DO NOT rub it on your junk, it is applied either to the upper arms and shoulders, abs, or thighs. Thats it nowhere else.
I have not done the trt injections. I originally wanted to get that for 2 fold purpose, but my doc was to the nail on giving me the androgel. 8 months later I am glad for it, u see with this product you are getting what a normal healthy 18 yr old male would produce everyday. That equates to allot considering with injections you will have a high point in your T levels and as the 2 weeks inbetween shots take place your levels will drop and so may other things. I just wanted to be normal finally so it has worked out great. As I had stated b4 I juiced for years and although I love love love it to the core i wanted an opportunity to be like allot of men my age. NORMAL.That is testosterone levels normal, and as I age when everyone else’s test levels drop and that is considerd normal for their age, I will still be rubbin on the goodies till I croak. I know that will be very benifical as I continue to age. Currently I do not know what my T levels are, I have never even bothered to ask since my cholesterol levels seem to be the topic of conversation with my doctor and me now days. Damn it sucks to be gettin old. I am going to have 3 test ran on my thyroid next visit to make sure it is on par, cause I think it is low and causing my cholesterol to go through the roof. Hope I answered your questions and did not ramble to long. Good luck

BTW make sure you get that antiestrogen. Even the literature in the packages speak of how easily the androgel causes gyno. Dont say I did not warn ya. It made my nips sensitive until the anti took full affect.