T Nation

Long-term effects of Nandrosol, Androsol, etc.

Hey t-mag crew, now that I’ve placed my order for Nandrosol and Tribex, I’m beginning to wonder how safe these supplements will be over the long term.

I mean, Androsol and Nandrosol are new to the market. So you guys haven’t had time to do any long-term testing. So I’m wondering if there are potential problems that could happen.

I’ve been reading past articles where some guy used steriods and now has erectile dysfunction. Could that happen with Androsol or Nandrosol?

Even if I follow the recommendation of two weeks of Nandrosol followed by four weeks of Tribex, after a few “cycles” could I have potential side effects or long-term problems?

Just curious. I know you guys develop products with safety in mind, but I’m getting a little worried.

And I’m sure there are plenty of t-maggers who may be wondering the same thing. Thanks for your help!

That’s a very good question… the answer requires getting pretty technical though. Making the products safer than anabolic
steroid cycles while still giving good results
is what we’re doing and a key point of the
whole thing.

First, let’s look at the issue of how safe
is a moderate steroid cycle in the first place?
The highest dose that is medically studied is 600 mg/week testosterone given to men for 10 weeks, reported by Bhasin, Casaburi et al. in the New England Journal of Medicine. This was found safe and effective over the course of the 10 weeks, and according to examinations given after the cycle.

We are only recommending two-week cycles.

Furthermore, we are not increasing testosterone
levels to anything like that seen in the study. Androsol doesn’t work that way. It does give a good increase in testosterone levels but they stay around high normal. In contrast, the 600 mg/week dose increases levels by about 6 times. Even though this was found safe, as we know testosterone is not the safest of the anabolics
because, along with elevated testosterone levels, come elevated estradiol and DHT levels. These can cause adverse side effects and be the real culprits.

Now, it’s not that our T levels are way more
moderate than in the NEJM study but at the
cost of gains being low. Uh-uh. The NEJM study
is not a worthwhile reference for rate of gains – the men gained only 13 lb in 10 weeks – because, IMO, the researchers did not have
the subjects take anywhere near enough protein: only about 0.8 g/lb LBM per day. However we have a lot of experience with guys using Sustanon and the results from the first two weeks of their usually-much-longer cycles. You just don’t get the gains you get from Androsol with less than 2 Sustanons per week (500 mg) and actually Androsol seems to be outperforming
that dosage level of Sustanon by a little bit. But, and this is very important, without the sky-high T levels. And therefore without the
estrogenic and DHT side effects.

Coupled with the fact that we recommend only short cycles, everything I can see is saying that we are taking a much more conservative and milder approach than even rather mild steroid cycles that have been shown to be safe (that is, safe for 10 weeks medically, and from the standpoint of what we find in bodybuilding, safe to do a couple of cycles per year.)

Now there are downsides. Androgens tend to worsen blood cholesterol, but only while you are on them… it rapidly fixes itself. Being on androgens month in, month out, year in, year out would be a very bad idea for cardiovascular health, but occasional use isn’t going to affect blood lipids on average more than rather moderate dietary changes will.

The two-on, four-off programs keeps you “off”
most of the time and definitely minimizes
side effects; T levels are kept high-normal or so and high normal has never been shown to have an adverse effect on healthy men, and the 4-AD itself, while giving good gains, doesn’t aromatize or convert to DHT.

Nothing is perfectly safe and proven to be so
over the long term, but we feel sure that we’ve
made Androsol pretty safe and a pretty big improvement over traditional moderate steroid cycles (let alone heavy-duty ones.)

That’s not a complete answer to your question but hopefully it gives a good picture of how we look at the safety of Androsol.

Oh, and on the erectile dysfunction question, Nate: It’s true that very high levels of nandrolone in the blood can cause this problem.
Not “necessarily will cause” but can cause it for some guys. We don’t have the numbers yet but based on what’s known about the conversion enzyme, Nandrosol is not going to yield massive nandrolone… instead it mostly will supply nor-4-AD, which itself doesn’t have that problem. Basically, this is a potential (in theory) problem to think about, but it isn’t one that we’ve seen yet.

If it does occur, a great advantage over Deca is, if levels are higher than you can tolerate in that regard, you’re stuck with them for a week or more before they drop very much! But with Nandrosol, if you want to try only half the dose the next day, that’s what you do… you’re not stuck with the problem as the nandrolone (from the standpoint of the body) will clear very fast.

(From the standpoint of drug tests, which can detect amounts of nandrolone that are thousands or millions of times lower than what is relevant to the body, Nandrosol cannot be expected to clear rapidly. Trace amounts of metabolites may be formed that could last for months.)

Bill, thank you for the information. That does help put my mind at ease. I will use the Nandrosol as recommended. I bought three bottles, so that should be good for three two-week cycles. As long as I make some decent gains, I’ll be happy and will not be using it long term.

Are there any other possible long-term side effects to doing something like I just described? Gyno? Prostate enlargement? Hair loss?

Or will the cycles be too short for any of that to occur? In addition to the Nandrosol cycles, I'll be using Tribex. So I want to make sure I won't be causing any long-term problems.

Again, thank you for the information. It does help!

To combat the possibility of cholesterol problems while on androgens try psyllium husks (colon cleanse). The stuff works great to keep you regular and there is evidence that it helps to regulate cholesterol levels. Here is a short excerpt: " In a clinical study 26 patients with mild to moderate hypercholesterolemia were given 102 g per day for eight weeks. Psyllium reduced the total cholesterol by 15% and decreased LDL cholesterol by 20% (Anderson et al., 1988). Another study found psyllium lowered total cholesterol by an additional 5% and LDL cholesterol by an additional 8% in 75 patients receiving a low-fat diet (Bell et al., 1989).

I got this reference from the WebMd site.

To the best of our knowledge, 4-AD and nor-4-AD cannot cause gyno. They don’t increase estrogen levels and are not themselves estrogenic. Both have been out on the market, in other forms, for quite some time now and gyno just hasn’t been a problem with these. (It has with the diones however, very much so.)

We actually have not had a single report
yet from anybody complaining about suspected
hair loss from Androsol. Kind of surprising
because with most pharmaceutical steroids you
do get that complaint pretty often, at least
I get a lot of reports of it. But not for Androsol. I’m not saying that it doesn’t accelerate development of male pattern baldness if you have the genetics for it – I think all androgens do – but I am saying that it’s mild enough that we’re getting zero negative feedback on that point. And that’s with
thousands of users. So it’s safe to say that it’s reasonable to expect you’ll see nothing in that regard.

Ditto for effect on prostate.

I really don’t see long term problems of
any kind, even small ones.

I am 100% confident that the long term effects of Androsol are the same as testosterone WRT
to sex drive/potency/ercetile dysfunction.
Infer this to mean, “if you use either in a
responsible, sane manner, there will be no
long term side effects for 99.999% of the
population”.

As for Nandrosol, I would consider it to have the same long term effects as Deca.

Brock

Thanks Bill and Brock! I feel a bit better about it now. And if the two-week cycles aren’t long enough to cause any damage, then I’m down for getting bigger!

The reason I brought it up is that I am predisposed to male pattern baldness (damn genetics!), and I already have what I think is a slight case of naturally occurring gyno. Or maybe it’s just the fact that I have larger nipples than most guys. Anyway, I don’t want it to increase! In fact, I’m trying to figure out how to get rid of it without having to have surgery.

Two more questions: 1) Brock, you mentioned that Nandrosol wouldn't have anymore long-term effects than Deca. What effects would that be? 2) Since I'll be doing the Nandrosol/Tribex cycle, should I use the Tribex every day for the four-week cycle? Or should I do the five days on two days off for four weeks?

Thanks again for all your help! I should have my Biotest package waiting for me when I get home today! Yahoo!!

I forgot to ask you one more question. This is the last one. I swear! Will Androsol, Nandrosol or Tribex cause an increase in body hair? I already have more than enough, and do not want any increases, not even one hair folicle!!!

Thanks again!

Nate, Androsol doesn’t have any more effect,
so far as I have seen, on body or facial hair than androgens taken any other way. However, those individuals who have only partially developed facial or body hair, will typically
see themselves “fill out” when using Androgens. Those that already have a thick beard or thick body hair won’t see new hairs grow. While actually on the androgens, hair growth might be faster (true of the beard, I don’t know about the body.)

The fact that you’re applying to the skin seems to be irrelevant – you don’t get any particular local effect. The only obvious effect I get with Androsol (also any androgen) while using it is that my beard grows much faster – but I don’t spray there! Where I actually spray, I see no effect.