T Nation

Long Jack Side Effects?


#1

Hoy.

ive been using something called long jack aka tongkat ali for a couple of months. i had my test levels measured before to 22 units and now 33 units. its an increase by a whooping 50%. so far very good.

however, my libido is 0 (it was about 0 before the long jack also, but i hoped it would increase) and i thought i saw the onset of man boobs being developed in the mirror. wtf. anyone knows about these side effects or should i not be concerned, it could be just at my age (49y) and a semi-bad diet, i eat the healthy stuff but also the not healthy stuff, i eat quite a lot actually and not gaining weight although i m fat, i have a bw of 95 kg at 181 cm and estimated fat in 18-24 % range which i have maintained for 10 years. different methods give different results on fat %.

m not sure i want to continue with the longjack, its expensive and man boobs isnt on my top list of desirable stuff.

question is: does long jack have bad effects such as 0 libido or man boobs?

thanks


#2

I am not sure about the supplement in itself, but I know that with an increase in testosterone your body may aromatize it into Estrogen (many times seen in Testosterone Replacement Therapy). I’ve just never heard of a supplement actually being very efficient at increasing testosterone unless there was a deficiency in something necessary, like Zinc.

When a man’s Estrogen increases in TRT they take what’s known as an Aromatase Inhibitor (“AI”) to help curb the increase in Estrogen and keep it within optimal serum range. But this, too, is a pharmaceutical that is given by medical professionals. Although it is said that Grapeseed Extract may be beneficial in this capacity, I’ve also heard that there isn’t profound, solid evidence thereof.

Honestly, I’d see a doctor and get a whole slew of bloodwork done that is generally done for TRT: Free T, Total T, Estradiol, FSH, LH, SHBG, Hematocrit, etc. Get a baseline and show them the supplement.


#3

Longjack will not give you man boobs. You get man boobs when you inject T or get it through TRT; i.e., artificially. What LJ (Tongat Ali) does is enhance the ability of your balls to produce T. As far as libido, what I notice and have seen in other reports is the enhancement of erections. That doesn’t necessarily correlate to increased libido, but the latter without strong wood tends to be, let’s just say, ‘dysfunctional’.


#4

i havent done that. i decreased long jack, still taking some and decreased weight and bf, man boobs gone. libido still 0 though.


#5

how do you know this? some reference please?


#6

From the Mayo Clinic site:
Gynecomastia is triggered by a decrease in the amount of the hormone testosterone compared with estrogen. The cause of this decrease can be conditions that block the effects of or reduce testosterone or a condition that increases your estrogen level.

Well, I should have qualified my comment, essentially, gynecomastia (man boobs) can happen for a host of reasons, but most pointing to upsetting the T vs Estrogen balance. I am just saying that as long as you increase your T naturally, by stimulating T production pathways with natural supplements, you shouldn’t have an issue.

That said, another cause of man boobs is being overweight with weak upper-chest development. That sounds like what you had going.


#7

why does it sound like that?


#8

ermh, from where did you get that. are you just making stuff up as the discussion goes along?


#9

That you didn’t have man boobs, but a fatty upper chest. The latter is easy to fix with diet and exercise and it sounded like that was what you were doing. That is different from breast tissue build-up from too much estrogen. See @poppadr3w’s post above.


#10

Where are you getting the longjack? I tried some from an online company and it was garbage.
I was taking it to lower SHBG.

Felt no effect.


#11

This is such a weird thread. Just want to clarify a couple things.

first off, ‘man boobs’ is something of an ambiguous term. @bonoboschimp I’m not actually sure which definition you’re using, so I’ll outline the 2 most common.

Some people call large, flabby pecs man boobs. This is not a hormonal thing, it’s just fat accumulation on the chest. It’s a pretty common thing when you’re hovering at or above 20% bodyfat.

Then, there is gynecomastia. Generally speaking, you can’t really see gyno at higher bodyfat levels. Gyno is an increase in breast tissue mass centered around the nipple, not just fat accumulation across the chest in general. It’s a pronounced lump under the skin, and as it develops it can be itchy, sometimes painful, and harder than the surrounding tissue. It can be come very apparent in a front double bicep pose, when the chest is elevated and you can see the pronounce lump more clearly. It looks weird.

The causes of gyno vary. Pubescent gyno is a relatively common phenomenon, as hormones are fluctuating wildly at that age. Some teenage boys develop gyno even without being overweight or doing anything unusual (steroids, drugs, etc).

Being overweight can also cause abnormal hormonal fluctuations that can result in a T:E imbalance. And gyno can develop.

Then, of course, steroids can cause it very easily. But there are also many other drugs that have been observed to cause gyno, not just anabolic steroids.

Natural supplements DO have the potential to disrupt the natural T:E ratio. There are a zillion things that can cause elevated Estrogen. So the comment above of ‘you get manboobs when you inject T’ is technically accurate, but certainly not the only way you get gyno.

So all that being said, I don’t even know if you have actual gyno symptoms anyway, lol. I would google image it if I were you so you can see exactly what I’m talking about.


#12

since it was well over 1 year ago these events took place my memory has gone vague. i recall the boob development placed from the nipple and to the outer side of the chest. i noticed it early so it was not a large thing, but def very soft and not muscle. i was prolly around 20% bf at the time, that’s not lean but it’s not man boobs fat imo.


#13

At the time, you got a blood test measuring your test levels. Did this test measure estrogen levels at all? Did it measure anything else besides test?


#14

it measured blood values, minerals, vitamins, a bunch of stuff, but not estrogen and free T. everything in normal range. i just decreased my long jack dose and the boobs vanished. i knew about free T, but that test wasnt available, and albumin test that can be used to estimate free T wasn’t either. i had my T measured again, this time it was 27 units.

my second T measurement was 33 units, at the time for boob development, which was at the upper end for normal range in my age. an idea could be that i produced slightly more T than 33 units but that the excess T got converted to estrogen, and hence, causing boobs.