T Nation

Long Cycle...


#1

Let me start with, I am 24, been lifting for approx. 6 years, and only about 3 of those seriously. I have been lurking on this site for quite a while now. Trying not to look stupid on my first post and have bonez217 rip me a new one...

This cycle is not for me, but for a friend of mine that i train with. Yes, i know he is the one that should be posting this, but oh well.

His stats:

Age: 18
Lifting: 4 years
Started at about 110lbs, now weighing 190.
Diet: Approx 4700 cals
-360 grams protein
-500-600 grams carbs
-130ish grams of fats
Training:6 times per week (harder then i have seen anyone train... he works out with two pro bodybuilders but has not had the courage to bring up drugs yet.)

Cycles Done: 2
Cycle #1 was a prohormone cycle using two compounds (epistane and something else)
Cycle #2 was test cyp done for 10 weeks @ 500mgs per week
-no sides noticed from the cyp
-started the pct 5 days after last injection
-pct nolva 40/40/20/20

Now, for the proposed cycle, which i believe is too long and too much. Not to mention he is only 18...

1-16: Test E@ 900mg per week (Twice per week)
1-5: Dbol@ 40mg per day
1-10: Decca@ 400mg per week (Once a week)
.5 Arimedex Throughout...

PCT: Nolva 40/40/20/20 starting 5-6 days after last injection

I will say even though he is only 18, he is VERY serious about competing. He is planning for Nov. 25th up here in Canada. I will get into his 23 week precontest cycle later. Which i tell him is too long, but he thinks because of the timing of the contest he cant do anything about it. I KNOW there are MANY other options out there.

But how does this look? A little bit long and intense for an 18 year old with one cycle under his belt IMO.


#2

He probably shouldn't have started to begin with, but now that he has, you are probably not going to stop him. I have had friends start as young as 16-17, which is completely fucking retarded in my opinion.
And once you start, you really do not want to stop, so I totally understand you wanting to help him out at least.

With test E, the PCT should be started 2 weeks after the last injection. Also waiting 3 weeks to start the Dbol will be better because the test will be saturated by then, and will work synergistically with each other.
Also says .5mg adex throughout but does not give frequency. ED? EOD?

16 weeks is a long time, but is he even going to listen if you tell him not to? There are guys I know who run a lot crazier cycles for a lot longer leading up to a big meet. If he won't listen to you, then I guess just help him do it the best you can....


#3

Ya, i know i wont stop him. All I wanna do is help and learn in the process.

I may have convinced him to drop the cycle down to only 12-13 weeks.

The Dbol will still be used right in the begining.
'
As for the Adex, .5 ED

Also, after this cycle, then one week off (he only wants to wait one week), then pct, then waiting only 4 weeks to get into the next cycle... WTF? Am i crazy? Or is that not nearly enough time to recover? Everything i have read is time off = time on. So at a MINIMUM 8 weeks after finishing pct before starting the next. Or am i way off?


#4

Well the dbol will be better if you wait.

If he hasn't had problems with estrogen sides in the past he may be able to lower the adex dose some IMO. Most guys I know are ok with .25mg EOD and they just increase it if needed.

The point of PCT is to restore natural test production, to do that the drugs need to be out of the system. For test E, that will take about 2 weeks. That means one week out he will still be being suppressed by the test.

And yeah that is a little quick into the next cycle, but its not unheard of. He might as well cruise and blast, but I have a feeling with the way you say he treats this stuff, if would probably turn into an all blast, all the time.


#5

hey im pwrlifters friend, this is what my diet looks like in detail

8:30am meal 1: protien shake with 2 cups of milk and 1 1/3 cup oatmeal
10:00am meal 2: protien shake
11:30am meal 3: 7oz ground beef and pasta
1:30pm meal 4: 7oz ground beef and pasta
3:30pm pre workout shake: protien shake + 5g creatine +5g glutamine + 400mg cafine
workout 4-5
5:00pm protien shake + 5g creatine + 5g glutamine + 16oz gatarade
6:30pm meal 5: 7oz ground beef + pasta
8:30pm meal 6: 7oz ground beef + pasta
10:30pm Meal 7: 1 cup cottage cheese + 1 cup of milk
2:00am meal 8: protien shake with 1 cup of milk
5:00am meal 9: protien shake with 1 cup of milk
i sleep from 11-830


#6

im 5'6 and curently 193bs and willing to do anything to look the best i can possibly look at my contest, i start the cycle in a week, should i inject the test and deca on the same day or seperate days" like test injections monday and fri and deca on tues? or just inject the deca on monday too? i will also add a weight gainer shake to my diet when i start the cycle


#7

Impatient teenagers shouldn't cycle AAS, especially at nearly a gram a week with one cycle for experience....

WG


#8

Where are the veggies? Fruit? That will make a big difference. Add 8-10 servings of veggies and 3-4 servings of fruit to that throughout the day. There are lots of improvements that could be made, that is just the most obvious.
Another, instead of all those shakes, replace it with more whole food. Lots of EFAs too. Not seeing a lot of those in there.

I know this is not the forum for dietary advice, my point is that there is plenty of room for improvement via other methods right now.

When I was really small, I ate pretty much like that, except smaller quantities. When I started adding veggies, and lots of EFAs from eggs, peanut butter, salmon, ect I noticed great gains, then kicked it all up to about 6400 calories a day, 7000 on training days, and I gained like 60lbs the first year doing that, natural. With very little fat gain. So I made it to 250 eventually, drug free, just by eating a shit ton.

Since pwerlifter even said you are not going to listen, and since you have already started, there is not much point in telling you not to do it at all. But I would say stick to just test for awhile. Just play with the dose, and you could use shorter acting esters like prop for less water retention since you are planning to run this up to a show...


#9

Dont wake up to eat. Its stupid.

If you happen to wake up and CANT fall back asleep, sure, pound a shake.

Otherwise, sleep when you sleep. Eat when your awake.


#10

Agreed. You can get all the calories you need throughout the day. No need to wake up and eat... twice. Your body needs the time to rest and recover. Your messing with that when you wake up and drink a shake.


#11

What would you recommend him do then? Other then just not take em i mean. Cut doses? Cut length?


#12

Not look for alternatives to the advice. He shouldn't take them yet.


#13

i disagree i think its a good idea to have shakes throught the night to keep my body out of a catabolic state, im only up for a minute i just set my alarm quickly down a shake and go straight back to bed, i get plenty of sleep minimum 9 hours a day and on weekends i take naps throught the day so i get more than enought sleep


#14

Its not a good idea to purposely wake up to eat, plain and simple. Anyone with an education will tell you this.


#15

'sleep' isn't simply 'sleep'. There's a little thing called 'REM sleep' and different stages/levels of sleep. You think your body is only awake for a minute or two, but coming from a deep sleep and returning back to that same level of sleep doesn't happen that quickly. You're missing out on quite a bit more than you think.


#16

Why don't you just drink a casein shake before bed? Enjoy your sleep uninterrupted. You're growing while you sleep.


#17

Your still interrupting REM cycles with this.

Your welcome to do as you like, but just know the only guys you see doing this are the ones that dont know what they are doing.

Its generally the mark of a newbie trying to be as hardcore as possible, and hurting his gains in the process.


#18

on one on mr.olympia jay cutlers videos he said he was getting up twice in the middle of the night to eat, while he was preparing for the 2004 arnold classic he was getting up in the middle of the night to do cardio then went back to bed


#19

instead i use cottage cheese which is also a slow digesting protien, and i think the shakes through the night help even more