T Nation

Log: My PCT History, PCT After 3rd Cycle. 4.5 Months, Test/Tren/T3


#1

Hey guys,

I would like to share with you about my AAS and PCT experience. I’m 25, pharmacy student, lifts seriously for 2 years (previously, from 15 y.o., I was a hardcore road cyclist with 15-20 h/wk trainings and racing). This topic tends to help me collecting thoughts from last two years and share with you about my current upgraded PCT process. My approach is experience, science and blood-work based.

XI.2016 decided to take AAS after a 0.5 year of collecting data and introduction to training.
Height: 173 cm
Weight: 70 kg, 10% BF, 63 kg LBM
Squat/deadlift/bench press/OHP 1RM’s: 115/135/80/45 kg

1st cycle (XI.16 - II.17): Test enanthate 500 mg/wk for 16 weeks (ester washout included), hCG 400 UI e3d, Arimidex ~1 mg/wk.

Results (last cycle’s week):
Height: 173 cm
Weight: 84 kg, 11% BF, 74 kg LBM (LBM’s 11 kg increase in 4 months)
Squat/deadlift/bench press/OHP 1RM’s: 130/150/95/55 kg (15% AVG increase in 4 months)

1st PCT (II.17 - III.17): Clomid 50 mg for first 2 weeks (blood-work based), then tapering off (all-time with AI keeping E2 low preventing excessive SHBG synthesis).

First blood-work done 2 weeks after first Clomid administration:
LH 9.5 (1.7 - 8.6)
T 27 (10 - 28)
E2 60 (40 - 160)

It meant success, so I lowered Clomid dosage from 50 ED to 25 EOD (following weeks EOD dosages: 25/25/15/15/5/5 with very low AI dose, about 0.1 mg E3D); blood-work remained almost the same after those changes (T in upper range). I felt awfully during first 2 weeks of Clomid (depression, apathy, trouble sleeping, decreased mood and libido despite T in the range > definitely Clomid side effects, it was much better after lowering it’s dosage).

So it took me 8 weeks to fully recover from the first cycle, I was OFF for 5 weeks after (AAS cycle lasted 16 weeks, PCT+OFF 13 weeks).

Results (last OFF’s week):
Height: 173 cm
Weight: 81 kg, 10% BF, 72 kg LBM (LBM remained almost the same after PCT and being OFF)
Squat/deadlift/bench press/OHP 1RM’s: 130/145/95/60 kg (5% AVG increase being PCT+OFF for 13 weeks after cycle)

2nd cycle (V.17 - VII.17): Test propionate 650 mg/wk for 10 weeks, Dianabol 30 mg ED for first 7 weeks (washout period included), hCG 400 UI e3d, Arimidex ~2 mg/wk.

Results (last cycle’s week):
Height: 173 cm
Weight: 92 kg, 14% BF, 79 kg LBM (LBM’s 7 kg increase in 2 months)
Squat/deadlift/bench press/OHP 1RM’s: 145/165/110/65 kg (12% AVG increase in 2 months)

The cycle was tragic. Despite great LBM and 1RM improvements, about 1/2 of this time was facing E2 being too low/being too high. For example, with T prop 650 mg/wk and Dbol 30 mg/ed, AI 0.1 mg/ed resulted in E2 360 (40- 161); T prop 800 mg/wk and Dbol 30 mg/ed, AI 0.25 mg/ed (2x more) resulted in E2 350 (40 - 161); T prop 800mg/wk and no Dbol, AI 0.40 mg/ed resulted in acceptable E2 120 (40 - 161); conclusion: with heavier doses of T esters and highly-aromatizable orals, AI dosage should oscillate within ~1 mg/ed on my example. I won’t take Dbol or another highly-aromatizable component (except T ester of course) anymore, there’re many better AAS to choose (and T as E2 source is just enough for your general health and well-being).

2nd PCT (VIII.17 - X.17): Nolvadex 40 mg for 3 weeks, then Nolvadex 20 mg for 1 week, then Clomid because Nolvadex didn’t work as expected (all-time with AI keeping E2 low preventing excessive SHBG synthesis).

First blood-work done 1 week after first Nolvadex administration:
LH 1.5 (1.7 - 8.6)
T 6.6 (10 - 28)
E2 <18 (40 - 160)

2 weeks after first Nolvadex:
LH 1.8 (1.7 - 8.6)
T 15 (10 - 28)
E2 <18 (40 - 160)

3 weeks after first Nolvadex:
LH 2.0 (1.7 - 8.6)
T 12 (10 - 28)
E2 50 (40 - 160)

4 weeks after first Nolvadex:
LH 3.1 (1.7 - 8.6)
T 11 (10 - 28)
E2 56 (40 - 160)

As you can see, Nolvadex (40/40/40/20, which means heavy doses) remained HPTA shutdown almost untouched. What’s interesting, my libido wasn’t very low, I maintained my LBM and 1RM’s with little fluctuations, and my frame of mind wasn’t too bad. It was much better than first 2 weeks of Clomid in 1st PCT, despite HPTA started working almost immediately there. That’s why I decided to give Clomid a try… After 4 weeks of Nolva I administered 50 mg of Clomid, and then 0.25 mg EOD for a week, results after JUST 1 dose of 50 mg and 1 dose of 25 mg (after 4 days of Clomid, coupled with 20 mg of Nolvadex ed!):

LH 9.1 (1.7 - 8.6)
T 19 (10 - 28)
E2 55 (40 - 160)

And after that, I throw Nolvadex away, tapered Clomid in 1 month keeping my HPTA working with excellent blood-work (T in the upper range again) and in-life results. That’s so interesting guys, I doubt that Nolvadex was fake… If you fail to PCT with Nolva, couple it with Clom for several days or try Clom only; SERM’s pharmacokinetics and pharmacology is so complicated to explain why that happened to me with 100% certainty.

Was OFF for a month after that PCT, wanted to try another stuff (T3, tren) and deal with fat deposits I collected during last cycle (3rd cycle).

Results (last OFF’s week):
Height: 173 cm
Weight: 89 kg, 12% BF, 78 kg LBM (LBM remained almost the same after PCT and being OFF)
Squat/deadlift/bench press/OHP 1RM’s: 135/150/105/62 kg (5% AVG decrease being PCT+OFF for 15 weeks after cycle)

3rd cycle, shredding (XI.17 - IV.18): Test enanthate 350 mg/wk for 16 weeks, Tren acetate 350 mg/wk for 9 weeks, T3 50-75 mcg ED for 15 weeks (washout period included), hCG 400 UI e3d, Arimidex ~0.5 mg/wk.

Results (last cycle’s week):
Height: 173 cm
Weight: 82 kg, 6% BF, 78 kg LBM (LBM’s constant, about 8 kg of fat shredded)
Squat/deadlift/bench press/OHP 1RM’s: 170/190/115/72 kg (17% AVG increase in almost 5 months)

As you can see, no LBM improvements, fat loss (~0.4 kg/wk), 17% AVG increase in main lifts (technique and training programming advancement). The cycle was great - E2 was stable during the phase, FOM and libido… Do not ask, excellent. Tren ace 100 mg/eod works really good, w/o serious sides on my example.

SUMMARY

XI.2016 - IV.2018 (1.5 year)
Weight: 70 kg > 80 kg
%BF: 10 > 6
LBM: 63 kg > 78 kg (15 kg, it gives us ~0.9 kg/month despite long shredding, PCT and OFF periods I conducted)
SQUAT 1RM: 115 > 170 (48%, 3 kg/month)
DL 1RM: 135 > 190 (41%, 3 kg/month)
BENCH 1RM: 80 > 115 (44%, 2 kg/month)
OHP 1RM: 45 > 72 (60%, 1.5 kg/month)
AVG 1RM: +48%

Take into account that strenght results written above are related to shredding phase without AAS in circulation, with AAS and HC diet it usually increases up to 7-10%.

Very happy with the results.

TARGET: recover from 3rd cycle (PCT), keep 1RM’s and %BF, reverse diet, be healthy.

To be continued in following post.


Considering TRT because of PCT's Side Effects & Plans in the Near Future
#2

After 2nd PCT troubles with Nolvadex I’ve decided to perform my HPTA recovery with Clomid. Approach - induce LH synthesis ASAP after ~5 months of pituitary gland being off (testicles should be fine after chronic hCG administration ~400 UI e3d, sperm count and testicular size haven’t changed). Tren is known to be very suppressive, probably more SERM will be needed (comparing to previous cycles).

24.03 - last Test enanthate injection
29.03 - last hCG (600 UI) injection
02.04 - first Clomid administration (after 9 days of last TE injection; first dose 50 mg, then 25 mg eod to check if low dosage works as previously)
09.04 - first blood-work after 16 days of last TE injection, 7 days after first Clomid administration:

LH <0.1 (1.7 - 8.6) - completely dead
PRL 88 (60 - 360) - last Cabaser administration about 4 weeks ago and just 0.25 mg
E2 <18 (40 - 161) - completely dead cus of low T and AI which was dosed 0.07 mg EOD to prevent E2 accumulation (I assumed that after 1 week of PCT testo production will start)
T 13 (10 - 28) - that’s interesting, after 16 weeks of TE injection some remained in circulation; no way it’s from endogenous production

From 24.03 to 14.04 I noticed weight loss (because of E2, T): 82.5 > 81.0 kg (%BF constant, which means loss of LBM ofc).

General conclusions from these 3 weeks:

  • no big differences in mood, libido, energy, strenght from 24.03 to 09.04; just some strenght and energy losses because of low E2, but was satisfied with 6% an no water retention; had good sex at least once daily;

9.04 - after receiving blood-work I decided to bombard my HPTA with SERM, 100 mg of Clomid day one, then 75 mg ED until next monday.

From 9.04 to 13.04 I felt like shit (sleepiness, low energy, low libido, depression, apathy, couldn’t focus, etc.). Hard to get an erection, but no ED. Because of depression don’t want to have sex (Clom high dose + probably completely no T + no E2). Workouts were just fine, no energy to go to the gym but after workout’s start it was just fine.

14.04 (today) - something has changed; wanted to bang my GF as never before this awful week; sperm count - just WOW; went to the gym - just WOW (feel strong and happy, got a pump); blurred muscle definition, bloated a bit; definitely more hungry since yesterday; don’t want to sleep, want to write this post and learn.

Conclusion: HPTA is probably working. Libido, energy, strenght, hunger mean T. Blurred muscle definition, hunger, strenght, no pain in my joints mean E2.

Action: no Clomid today (14.04) and tommorow (15.04) to throw away unnecessary big dosage (SE, LH, E2 disturbances), blood-work on 16.04 and we will see (after 5 days of ~75 mg ED and 2 days of cessation it would mean about ~40 mg on 16.04 basing on it’s t1/2).

If HPTA is running and LH T E2 in check - Clomid 50 mg EOD for following week (then 25 EOD and tapering off).
If HPTA isn’t running or low LH (but in the range) - Clomid 50 mg ED and we will see.

Blood-work each week, stay tuned and comment, ask questions.

UPDATE: Couldn’t maintain a strong erection today in the afternoon but had an orgasm with unbelievable sperm amount (like a pornstar). I haven’t taken an AI since 8.04. Everything indicates that LH (T > E2) is high. Taking 0.3 mg AI today (blurred muscularity, bloated, feeling a little like on Dbol when E2 was the highest in my career). Blood-work in 2 days, can’t wait.


#4

15.04.2018

E2 was high, 0.3 mg of AI yesterday made me look leaner, no bloat, don’t want to sleep, about ~0.5 kg of weight loss; E2 level is probably too low now, feel clicking in my joints, slight strenght loss during squats today; frame of mind, motivation, libido OK, had 2x satisfied orgasms today with fast erection and no erection loss;

No Clom today, going to lab tommorow morning, will have results tommorow as well.


#5

16.04.2018 got my results

LH 12.2 (1.7 - 8.6)
T 21 (10 - 28)
E2 60 (40 - 160)

It means HPTA works after:

  • 23 days of last TE injection,
  • 18 days of last hCG administration,
  • 14 days after PCT has started (at most).

Happy with the results.

LH is high as expected (sperm amount, higher T & E2 symptoms), E2 was high on 14.04, lowering it’s level with 0.3 mg AI resulted in a bit too low result (better than too high anyway). As we can see, 12.5 mg of Clomid ED was too low to stimulate pituitary gland on my example, more is needed (75 mg ED this time, I’m going to take 50 mg next PCT).

Most forums suggest to take at least 100 mg of Clomid for first two weeks of PCT, then 50 mg ED for another two weeks & no serious taper off, even after mild cycles such as TE for 3 months… Any logic behind that? No, as with most AAS bro-tips around.

Target: Ttotal in the upper range with LH in the range, E2 in range 90-110, to achieve in two-three weeks with lower Clomid doses over time.

Actions: lowering Clomid dosage from 75 mg ED to about 40 mg ED (last dose - 75 mg, was taken on 14.04, so basing on it’s t1/2 and plasma Cmax I’m going to continue it’s administration on 19.04 with 40 mg ED until next blood-work on 23.04).

Last PCT, 5 days after Clomid was taken for the first time: LH 9.1, T 19
Last PCT, 12 days after Clomid was taken for the first time: LH 8.8, T 27 < that’s what we’re waiting for.

So after ~7 days of Clomid’s started working we have LH 11 and T 21, lowering it’s dosage by ~50% should lower LH a bit, increasing T level because of testicles are starting to work (were OFF since last hCG administration - about two weeks). I set Arimidex to 0.15 mg/eod basing on current T level and previous PCT experience.

Supplementation:

  • Magnesium 600 mg,
  • Zinc 25 mg,
  • Calcium 500 mg,
  • DHA + EPA 2000 mg,
  • Gingseng 500 mg,
  • Vitamin D3 4000 UI,
  • Potassium 1000 mg,
  • Selenium 100 mcg,
  • Iodine 250 mcg.

Current diet kcal balance has been set to “0”, poly:mono:sat 2:3:1, cholesterol 100% RDA, fiber 100% RDA, all minerals and vitamins intake from 150% to 300% RDA.


#6

Now the key is to keep my T as high as possible with LH in the range (to exclude a desensitization) and taper off SERM and AI in another few weeks. Blood-work each one or two weeks.

After seeing LH 12.2 (1.7 - 8.6) I’ve decided to alleviate Clomid’s dosage from ~75 mg ED to ~37.5 mg ED for the current week. Then, if blood-work would show LH over the range I’m going to lower it to 20 mg ED; if in-range - tapering off in minus 5-10 mg ed/each week manner > about 10 weeks of PCT in total with light SERM wash out. Then, in 2 weeks - more detailed blood-work with SHBG, thyroid function and another endo stuff.

17.04.2018 feeling really good. 8 h of sleep is just enough, don’t need to nap during a day; no strenght losses, done very good workout; libido 2/5, had a weak erection at night and in the morning, had sex without ED or something (hardness 7/10), sperm amount is just unbelievable. Some libido problems are (in 80% certainty) caused by low %BF and more than 6 months of shredding (with some break-weeks from kcal deficit). I don’t want to have sex so often, but if I force myself a little - there’s no problem there. Hopefully everything will come to normal after regaining some %BF when reverse diet is over (after 30.IV.2018).


#7

20.04.2018

General state of mind 3/5, libido 2/5 this week, despite T & E2 levels are probably fine:

  • strenght maintained, as workouts volume and intensity, workouts make me happy,
  • getting good pump, muscles size and quality didn’t dramatically change after AAS cessation (strength maintenance confirms that),
  • still losing weight with constant %BF, despite kcal intake changed in 1-4 weeks from 15k kcal to almost 19k kcal (weight: 82.5 > 82.0 > 81.5 > 81.0, %BF still the same basing on folds measurement which I perform always in the same way),
  • have energy to do anything, sleep requirement is normal,
  • getting an erection when well stimulated, it takes few seconds (not immediately like on a cycle), it’s maintained and with acceptable hardness, good orgasms with plenty of sperm (but in general I don’t want to have sex),

Conclusion from this week: T and E2 are probably fine, T is probably higher than last week, low libido and not-so-happy state of mind are probably caused by Clomid’s antagonistic actions taken on dopaminergic neurons in CNS (common side effect which I experience the 3rd time). Hopefully, 37.5 mg/ed of Clomid is enough to get LH over the range, so faster taper-off could be used.

BTW, I won’t be sad if HPTA won’t be working fine after PCT. I love this sport and AAS game, I’m educated in pharmacy, know PCT & TRT pros and cons and if I would maintain my lifestyle, it would be much easier to conduct TRT than PCT, with less effort and less side effects.

The biggest advantage of TRT is T level dependent on you, not your physiology, so it doesn’t matter if you are on kcal deficit, having %BF 3 or 15, sick or healthy, the level is still the same so libido and FOM should be constant. I’m just 25 and don’t know with 100% certainly if I would lift weights till 40 y.o. (when I would go TRT anyway), so want to have comfort producing T on my own without medications as long as I can.