T Nation

Lockouts Less than BP

Did rack lockouts, from about two inches from my chest, Saturday. Only done them once or twice before, but I find them tough, and am actually using about 20 pounds less than my bench press weight for similar reps. Same goes for 2-board press. Is this just a case of not being neurally used to the movements, does it indicate certain weaknesses, or is this normal?

[quote]GDollars37 wrote:
Did rack lockouts, from about two inches from my chest, Saturday. Only done them once or twice before, but I find them tough, and am actually using about 20 pounds less than my bench press weight for similar reps. Same goes for 2-board press. Is this just a case of not being neurally used to the movements, does it indicate certain weaknesses, or is this normal?[/quote]

Are you starting them from a dead stop on the pins ore are you doing a touch and go?

The rack lockouts thing is pretty normal, but the two board press thing is really bizarre. You might have some glaring triceps defficiency, but it’s more likely that you have a form issue.

How long have you been training?

[quote]PGA200X wrote:
GDollars37 wrote:
Did rack lockouts, from about two inches from my chest, Saturday. Only done them once or twice before, but I find them tough, and am actually using about 20 pounds less than my bench press weight for similar reps. Same goes for 2-board press. Is this just a case of not being neurally used to the movements, does it indicate certain weaknesses, or is this normal?

Are you starting them from a dead stop on the pins ore are you doing a touch and go?[/quote]

Touch and go.

[quote]cap’nsalty wrote:
The rack lockouts thing is pretty normal, but the two board press thing is really bizarre. You might have some glaring triceps defficiency, but it’s more likely that you have a form issue.[/quote]

My triceps aren’t a strong point, but I don’t think they’re terrible, in relation to my bench anyway. Bench max is about 285, hit that about six weeks ago, and at the same time got a few reps, I think 5-6, of dips with an extra 90 pounds.

[quote]apwsearch wrote:
How long have you been training?[/quote]

Seven years, but about half of that with real knowledge. Several years doing big compound lifts, but no real powerlifting experience. Bench is not where I want it, despite being a focus, due to a couple of shoulder separations from sports, so I’m trying to get it up another 30 pounds ASAP.

[quote]GDollars37 wrote:
Did rack lockouts, from about two inches from my chest, Saturday.[/quote]

If you have the pins set about two inches off your chest, that’s not much of a rack lockout. It’s damn near a full range press.

[quote]malonetd wrote:
GDollars37 wrote:
Did rack lockouts, from about two inches from my chest, Saturday.

If you have the pins set about two inches off your chest, that’s not much of a rack lockout. It’s damn near a full range press.[/quote]

I don’t know how you execute a regular lift, but the bounce and go bench seems to be the general norm… most people would wake up the whole neighbourhood if they banged the weight against the pins the same way, so they instinctively slow down on the pin press.

Thus if you’re not used to pausing for a sec or even just touching without a bounce… then the difference with the presses from the pins and your regular bench will be pronounced in favor of the regular.

Also agree with the above quote, that the movement you were executing was not a lockout but almost a full press.

I also sometimes do presses from pins close to the chest, but I relax my tri’s and let the bar rest on the pins for a while and then push without stored elastic energy. So my rack presses from that height are also lighter than my regular bench. Blah, long story short… the first part of what you said is pretty normal.

The board presses are a mystery, it isn’t your neural efficiency or whatever… IMO the muscles should be firing just like in the regular press when reaching that range, so if we filmed your regular press and the board press, would the bar be in the same position in both lifts when reaching the height of the boards? What is the board setup? Is it causing you to use less arch or alter your setup in some other way?

Anyhow, something fishy about the bench and board press relation.

Do you consider yourself long armed or short armed. For example, we have some lifters that a four board is similar in stroke length to my raw bench, and others who’s 2 board is pretty much a 4 board for me…

This will make a difference in pinpointing what is going on.

Additionally, do you tend to set up flat backed with your shoulder blades not pinched together or up on your traps with shoulders pinched together?

[quote]GDollars37 wrote:
apwsearch wrote:
How long have you been training?

Seven years, but about half of that with real knowledge. Several years doing big compound lifts, but no real powerlifting experience. Bench is not where I want it, despite being a focus, due to a couple of shoulder separations from sports, so I’m trying to get it up another 30 pounds ASAP.[/quote]

[quote]malonetd wrote:
GDollars37 wrote:
Did rack lockouts, from about two inches from my chest, Saturday.

If you have the pins set about two inches off your chest, that’s not much of a rack lockout. It’s damn near a full range press.[/quote]

Agreed. Not even close to a lockout unless you have alligator arms.

Oh, I thought you were doing the pin presses from a dead stop. Yea, I have no idea why this would be the case; it would have to be a form issue.

[quote]cap’nsalty wrote:
Oh, I thought you were doing the pin presses from a dead stop. Yea, I have no idea why this would be the case; it would have to be a form issue.[/quote]

Ohhh, I missed that. Hmmm.

[quote]NorthStar wrote:
malonetd wrote:
GDollars37 wrote:
Did rack lockouts, from about two inches from my chest, Saturday.

If you have the pins set about two inches off your chest, that’s not much of a rack lockout. It’s damn near a full range press.

I don’t know how you execute a regular lift, but the bounce and go bench seems to be the general norm… most people would wake up the whole neighbourhood if they banged the weight against the pins the same way, so they instinctively slow down on the pin press.[/quote]

Yeah, I definitely do that.

Maybe, my bench pressing is usually touch and go, but not really much of a bounce I don’t think.

Yeah, I will do em with a full pause on Friday, thanks.

[quote]
The board presses are a mystery, it isn’t your neural efficiency or whatever… IMO the muscles should be firing just like in the regular press when reaching that range, so if we filmed your regular press and the board press, would the bar be in the same position in both lifts when reaching the height of the boards? What is the board setup? Is it causing you to use less arch or alter your setup in some other way?

Anyhow, something fishy about the bench and board press relation.[/quote]

I think bar position is about the same, I just put the two-board inside a long sleeved shirt that I wear over a t-shirt, no bands yet to tie em to me. But my arch and setup are the same I think.

[quote]apwsearch wrote:
malonetd wrote:
GDollars37 wrote:
Did rack lockouts, from about two inches from my chest, Saturday.

If you have the pins set about two inches off your chest, that’s not much of a rack lockout. It’s damn near a full range press.

Agreed. Not even close to a lockout unless you have alligator arms.[/quote]

Nope, real long arms. Will raise the pins when I do them again next week.

[quote]apwsearch wrote:
Do you consider yourself long armed or short armed. For example, we have some lifters that a four board is similar in stroke length to my raw bench, and others who’s 2 board is pretty much a 4 board for me…

This will make a difference in pinpointing what is going on.
[/quote]

Defintely long arms.

Sort of in between, not a huge arch, but definitely not flat-backed, do pinch shoulders together.

You know what would be real helpful – a video of each three lifts. Your full ROM bench, pin press, and board press. It doesn’t need to be heavy weights either, just enough weight to have the same form you usually use on these lifts.

you probally accelerate a bunch right off of your chest, so your tri’s aren’t doing as much work once you get the momentum. Bands are great for working against this along with the lockouts and everything.

[quote]malonetd wrote:
You know what would be real helpful – a video of each three lifts. Your full ROM bench, pin press, and board press. It doesn’t need to be heavy weights either, just enough weight to have the same form you usually use on these lifts.[/quote]

Sorry, don’t have either the technology or the know-how, but I appreciate the offer to help.

Thats not a lockout. As others have said, it is a pin press. Yes, they are normally lighter than the bench press for 2 reasons (there are probably more):
1.) you don’t build up a stretch reflex.
2.) you are probably not in the position you’d be if you were benching. I don’t care how good your form is, it is damn near impossible to do everything the same.

Thats not saying that pin presses are without merit, but they are two separate beasts. Also, be careful, these are notorious for pec and shoulder injuries!