T Nation

LL Prime Time Wed. 9/7 and Thurs 9/8/05


Hi All,
After surfing around the Nutrition Forums a bit, I'm landing in this thread tonight.

EDIT: It's now Thursday (thank God)...

Got new questions?



Hi Lonnie,

My Question concerns your cool tip that you post few months ago concerning morning cardio on a empty stomach...

Do you still suggest to do morning cardio even on a strengh/mass focus program?(of course by following your recommandations of 1/2 scoop of protein+coffee 1 hour before)

Do you think it could possibly interfere with the strenght gains?

I was planning to use this tip even if my main goal is not fat loss because I tend to store fat very easily and also because it could be great for limiting the damage caused by a cheat meal (the day before)

What do you think about this?

Thanks a lot for your help.


Hey Lonnie,

Good to see you on here tonight. Okay, so I know you and Mr. Barr are big supporters of dairy (as am I), (even though you managed to remain un-biased in your recent article), but my question is in regards to skim milk.

I love it, and drink a lot of it, about a gallon a day, much of it being mixed into protein shakes. I'm wondering how concerned I should be with the lactose within it. It acts as a simple sugar, and therefore spikes insulin each time I drink it, yes? Is this something to be wary of, or is it okay due to the fact that some carbs aid in protein synthesis anyway?


I posted this on the peanut butter thread but anyhow...

I was wondering what your views are on grits, particularly the Quaker Original Instant variety...


I'm looking for a cheap/quick/easy carb for my P+C meals and I can "down" grits alot easier than my oatmeal.


Hello Doc,

How would you recommend using creatine while losing fat with one week carb depleting/loading? The workouts would be high volume lactic acid style while depleting and more regular bodybuilder type workouts while loading.



To answer let me share an anecdote.

A friend of mine, Rob "Fortress" Fortney is a powerlifter closing in fast on a 700 pound squat - naturally. He has successfully incorporated morning brisk walks (he may have been a little less brisk since he carries 280 lb. or so in body weight and wasn't looking to pant per se). It was a way for him to focus on mass and strength (and the eating that goes with it) whilst minimizing fat gain.

Rob's story meshes well with the physiology behind the practice: A fat-specific calorie drain that doesn't add to training load per se (like intense cardio would) and may in fact enhance recovery.


my question tonight kind of piggy backs off of your article and the early man article by Berardi and Williams. I read an excerpt in the book ph miracle which says that man is not genetically meant to eat meat because of our rather long digestive track,(which by the books reasoning is more suited to nuts, grains, veggies, and fruits).

However, from what I have learned so far in my college nutrition studies, human digestive tracts are much shorter then that of regular herbivores and we are unable to use cellulose or fiber for energy unlike most herbivores? Am i correct in my understanding?

Within that same book there was a statement made that protein actually causes a greater insulin response then carbohydrates. Now I dont know what kind of protein the book was talking about because none was specified.

One last question: what does your training look like these days it has been awhile since you shared that.



Just wanted to touch base and see if you have found out anything on your "crazy legs". I lost track of the restless legs thread. Always interested to hear how others do with it.



Great questions.

One thing you may want to consider is that each cup of milk does carry 12 grams of sugar (yes, lactose). It can add up fast. I myself can forget this fact while focusing too much on the quality protein. Even if milk is low-glycemic index, a half gallon or a gallon (!!) is still a lot of sugar.

Since protein synthesis (read as "anabolic effects") is energy costly business, the added sugar calories may help - but I still think there are better carb choices to supply the kcal necessary for growth.

Hope that helps.


You bring up an important point, lucidhaze. Although nutritionally oats may be better in some ways, a person's lifestyle must be taken into account. Likes, dislikes, schedule, etc. are fair considerations.

I like a bowl of grits for variety purposes, from ime to time, with some protein like Low-Carb Grow! added after they cool a bit. I think that grits can certainly fit into a diet that focuses on variety (i.e. not grits every day but having other fast carb sources, too).

NOTE: often the instant varieties of hot cereals are a second choice behind the less refined stuff.


You're on the right trak regarding gut length vs. herbivores. Did you ever read The Warrior Nerd: Die, Vegetarian, Die!? Although the editors "enhanced" the title, I made some evidence-based ponts in that article. Try a search, eh?

My training frankly stinks right now. But there is light at the end of my tunnel. My air-cast comes off from the ankle surgery in about a week and then, along with the PT, I will return to the gym. I CANNOT WAIT. Admittedly, I've been strapping on the cast extra snug and doing a bit of upper body work lately (sshh!).

Still, I want to say this to everyone (coming from a worthless bag of atrophy whos just been away): give thanks for your ability to train every day; when it's taken from you, you'll know what I mean.



Thanks for the milk reply. A second question:

I purchase Fish Oil caps, a "Total EFA" supplement containing Omega 3,6 & 9, as well as CLA. I know there's some overlap between the Fish Oil and the total EFA supp, but what is your opinion on supplementing with these, in terms of dosage/timing, and even worthiness of inclusion?



Every few months I get the urge to compete in a bb comp, but push it back because of all the negative stereotypes; the shaved gorilla image, the strange and insecure people involved, shaving and getting onstage in my underwear. I'd like to ask a few questions if you don't mind discussing your personal experiences:

Did you find the experience rewarding? enjoyable? educational?

Do you think it's possible for someone to achieve their physique potential without competition?

Was the process too much of a strain on the people around you (because you have to focus on yourself for 3 or 4 months)?

Any wisdom you can provide to others who are considering competing but are a little "freaked out" by the thought of it?


Well, I've never been diagnosed with restless legs syndrome, but I find that, personally, a sleep ritual - you know a set of habits that I repeat every night like eat dinner... meditate for 20 minutes... drink some hot decaf drink... really relax psychologically... tend to help. My situation seems less annoying when I'm training legs regularly, too.

But everyone is different and the input of an MD is necessary for those with the "real deal" condition.


Dr L

This meshes in nicely with the article from a few months ago about yo-yo dieting . . . my goal is to build a way of eating that promotes muscle growth on a longer term basis, without significant fat gain, and the assertion that some cardio, if not overly draining, can assist w/recovery and help body composition also is encouraging. I've spent too many years with bad habits, up and down, etc. It's about substituting poor or unplanned behaviors with solid nutritional strategy, for me. Thanks.



Sure thing.
As far as EFA supplements, I'm not a fan of supplementing omega-6 fatty acids because, however essential linoleic acid may be, it's almost omni-present in the American diet. Paying "supplement price" for it seems pointless when it's in soo many vegetable oils (corn, cottonseed, soybean, etc.). Omega-6 supplementation might be helpful in the rare individual who structures his diet so rigidly as to eat almost no common fats.

It's the omega-3 (EPA and DHA, as I'm sure you realize) that are harder to find in the Western diet and are worth supplementing.

CLA, being an unusual series of fatty acids (not just one) is more controversial and I believe it's best addressed as a replacement issue, similar to omega-3s. That is, we consume less than in days long past and thus a low dose (perhaps 0.5 to 1.0g ?) may be replacing a deficiency of sorts - or so one theory goes.

Timing during the day is not critical but it's worth noting that the "washout period" of many fats is very long - 20+ weeks in some studies. So, timing them to match a micro-cycle (week or so) of training is pointless. A long 3-6 month meso-cycle of training, perhaps.


Let me preface by saying that I've had many similar thoughts.

I don't plan to compete again. When I did so in 2003, I was proving something to myself - that I could put 100% into it and succeed - unlike two half-arsed "efforts" many years ago. Having siad that, yes, it was rewarding because I felt good about the half-year journey, pitting my education and effort against others (some of whom chose a different route to the stage)... and yes, it was educational, giving me a first-person perspective of what it's like to be in a "national qualifier" event.

Yes; I sure do.

My plan involved a full 5+ months. Surprisingly, my family didn't have to deal with crankiness. By cutting carbs in the evening and religiously doing pre-breakfast "cardio", results cam without obsessiveness until the final month or so. Even then, I knew that my diet and extra gym time was a personal choice and not something to belly-ache about to loved ones.

Tough one. Hmm. Take your time and do it right. Fat loss without muscle wasting takes time and a well-conceived plan, counting backwards from a competition date. I even included a mass building phase prior to (and during) the early stages of kcal reduction. Each month has its purpose. I'd also say that absolute commitment is key; as Tom Platz says, it can be an almost religious experience when one's heart and soul are into it. I valued it beciase I know it wasn't something I would do repeatedly.


Thanks for those comments Lonnie.


Every Friday night I stay awake for about 23 hours straight because I go right from one job to the next.

My question is this: Should I up my total caloric intake that day or should I keep the same total and divide it up over more meals?

My job is as a bouncer so it can get pretty "active."


I think you're in uncharted territory...

On one hand, kcal needs would be higher since there's no sleep/ down time when the metabolism normally drops (10% or so).

On the other hand, sleep deprivation messes with a person's ability to metabolize carbs well and send the normal hormonal swings ("diurnal rhythms") into disarray. (I sent an article to TC on this in early August, I believe.)

I'm totally guessing here but focusing a bit more on healthy fats (olive oil, etc.) may be helpful to supply calories even in the face of some relative glucose intolerance. To keep energy up, though, I personally might take in some carbs around the time of "activity". Protein is basically always present with meals, so that's no mystery. These are just generalities, I realize.

I can't give any direct advice - not just for my usual liabilty and responsibility reasons but because I don't think any research has addressed physque issues during sleep deprivation.