T Nation

LL Prime Time Tues 8/23/05

Hi All,
It’s a bit early but I’m in the house for discussion.

Got questions?

Hey Dr. L, how are you? I’m in a bit of a quandary here. I’ve got these super strong sweet tooth urges, they’re incredibly powerful. Do you have any strategy to counter that?

On the same topic, I seem to have an empty-belly feeling after a great P+F meal, no matter how many calories I ingest. Even slowly reducing my carb intake is hard and leaves unsated. What to do?

Thanks for your nutrionnal wisdom and dietary tips.

Off to buy chocolate

Lonnie, is the concensus on fish oil that one should be consuming atleast 3g each of DHA and EPA, or simply 3g of fish oil. I’m assuming its the former, but would just like some clarification.

Thanks

Hi Zen warrior, good to see you here tonight.

I personally deal with sweet tooth episodes with sugar free gelatin or a sweetened protein (Grow!) bar. Even an apple or dried plums or other piece of fruit helps. I’d love to hear what others do. I personally also try to wait for a scheduled week every two months or so to enjoy sweets in moderation. It’s helpful in the long haul regarding muscle glycogen replenishment and psychological attitude. At some level a little bit of “discomfort” is required for most real self improvement during most weeks, though.

As far as P+F meals, they are usually slow to leave the stomach and thus filling. But body does adapt to frequent fatty meals by hastening gastric emptying. That is, this satiety effect can be lost to some extent. Adding plentiful vegetables goes well with P+F meals and adds filling fiber (soluble fiber (e.g. broccoli). Solid foods like meats also stay in the stomach longer.

It’s worth noting that carbs send a satiety (response (fullness, satisfaction) that differs from fat. Also, protein intake increases ghrelin (a hunger hormone that also boosts GH), which could lead to increased feeding. Although protein is generally fixed in amount for most of us (e.g. 200g per day) it’s worth considering as a cause for hunger too.

[quote]Zen warrior wrote:
Hey Dr. L, how are you? I’m in a bit of a quandary here. I’ve got these super strong sweet tooth urges, they’re incredibly powerful. Do you have any strategy to counter that?

On the same topic, I seem to have an empty-belly feeling after a great P+F meal, no matter how many calories I ingest. Even slowly reducing my carb intake is hard and leaves unsated. What to do?

Thanks for your nutrionnal wisdom and dietary tips.

Off to buy chocolate[/quote]

Hi Dr. Lowery,

There is a thread discussing how and when Power Drive to be taken with Surge PWO:

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do;hydra?id=733123

Please take a look of that and give us your valuable opinion on how to take Surge and Power Drive PWO for better recovery.

Thanks in advance.

Geek boy

cally,
Good question. Really good. [quote]Happy face sticker goes to cally tonight![/quote]

The 3.0g per day suggestion we see would provide about a gram of EPA+DHA - at least in standard (non-concentrated) fish oil capsules. It’s been estimated that even 500mg per day can be helpful, though, so this is enough for effects.

Regarding optimal dose, that’s still up in the air. I have studies on my hard drive in which the researchers administered 18 or more grams daily for short periods. Wow! But this is NOT optimal or recommended at all. rather, based on the couple hundred studies I’ve seen, the research dose is often in the 3.0 gram EPA+DHA range.

Plus, this fits nicely into the 3:1 ratio of omega-6 to omega-3 fats that’s often seen as helpful in the literature. (At least when we consider the major fatty acid players.) That is, if we average about 12g of linoleate (omega-6), then 3 grams of EPA+DHA meets the 3:1 ratio. This is FAR better than the 15:1 or 20:1 ratio that’'s underlying part of our modern chronic disease problems! For those who want to push the ratio even lower (I wouldn’t recommend much lower), adding 2 Tbsp flax ups the total omega-3 intake to about 5.5g, or roughly a 2:1 ratio.

I hope this isn’t too confusing!

Thanks for your kind words and sage advice, Dr. I was right on when I mentionned wisdom :wink:

I’ll try to add veggies, but I usually get a goodly amount in any of my meals. Maybe protein bars will help. I’ll let you know in anycase. Thanks again.

LL,

I just have a quick question for you:

I was reading Shugart’s interview with Joe DeFranco from a few years ago. In the article, Joe mentioned that he rotated the PWO drink brand he gave to his athletes every 2 weeks.

Do you have any idea as to why he would do this?

geekboy,
Well, it’s only an opinion, as I haven’t seen data either way, but the tyrosine in Power Drive would likely increase catecholamines (read as: adrenaline) so I’m not sure I’d consume it after a workout, as adrenaline (epinephrine) antagonizes insulin action.

Anecdotally, I have found it’s mild stimulating/ nootropic effects an hour prior to lifting most advantageous. It’s a coffee alternative for me and tyrosine effects adrenaline in a different (perhaps less harsh) way than caffeine does. And ginkgo reduces rather than increases stress as some studies suggest.

Tyrosine isn’t the only ingredient in question though (for example, ginkgo has been shown to have blood flow enhancing and soothing effects), so I can’t say.

Now that I’ve confused the issue even further for you, I think Cy’s your man about the specifics in formulae. If he suggests it’s helpful post workout and can explain why the EPI release isn’t a problem, I’d have a solid level of confidence in his reply.

Dr. Lowery,

Thank you for stopping by to answer questions. I’m not sure which one of the contributors to ask this of, but I think it best falls under your purview. I’m thinking of taking propecia/finasteride to prevent hair loss. I’m sure you already know that it works by inhibiting 5-alpha reductase’s ability to convert testosterone to DHT. My question is, anabolically speaking, how important do you think DHT is hormonally? I’ve heard some anecdotal stories that it has an effect on certain, traditionally male characteristics–libido, energy–well actually this part is documented, and I’ve heard that it also makes it more difficult to put on muscle and lose fat. I also know that during development, it’s a critical hormone for ensuring normal male development. I’ve been trying to do my homework on pubmed, but have yet to come across any real, definitive studies on the importance of DHT. What’s your take on this issue?

Thanks for the kind words, my man.

You know, it’s blaspheme to some persons, but consuming a little carbohydrate (CHO) throughout the evening is not evil. Well-planned mixed meals (P+C+F) are not evil. I try to keep my CHO intake to under 50g over 3 eveing meals/ snacks but adding a little may help some people. And remember appetite has a more psychological underpinning than hunger, per se, does. We don’t just eat out of biological hunger. (I wrote something on this once… maybe it was called “Eat It” or something similar; maybe try a search.)

[quote]Zen warrior wrote:
Thanks for your kind words and sage advice, Dr. I was right on when I mentionned wisdom :wink:

I’ll try to add veggies, but I usually get a goodly amount in any of my meals. Maybe protein bars will help. I’ll let you know in anycase. Thanks again.[/quote]

Do you think that Power Drive could be beneficial if taken mid-activity.

I only ask in that I compete in very long endurance events anywhere from 4+ hours to 8+ hours. I have had success with Power Drive in my shorter races 2+ hours when just taken before.

I was considering taking another serving at the midway point.

Hey Lonman,

While we’re on the subject of fish oil, I read somewhere recently that too much fish oil intake can lead to “fatty liver deposits”. Is this even remotely true, or would you have to consume 50g/day or something?

Thanks for your help.

illinois492,
Good question. I’m not an endocrinologist but I did get my share in grad school (exercise physiol major). I don’t believe that DHT has pronounced anabolic effects on skeletal muscle tissue but you’re right in saying it’s impact on secondary sexual characteristics/ development is significant. And from a purely bodybuilding perspective, it may confer a cosmetic hardness (totally unscientific there, I know). Aggresion in the gym may also be reduced with a 5-AR inhibitor. DHT is indeed partly responsible for such things. DHT competes in mammary tissue with estrogenic effects (e.g. anti-“bitch tit” effects) so you may want to dig around using search terms like ‘estradiol’, ‘DHT’ and ‘competitive inhibition’.

PS - IIRC, 70% of men experience hair loss. It’s the norm and looks pretty manly, if you ask my me, personally! Still, I empathize greatly. I once bought Rogaine (circa age 32) before embracing the cue ball. I think it involves some personal trade offs when we try to “spare the hair”.

Again, good question. And good luck with your decision!

[quote]illinois492 wrote:
Dr. Lowery,

Thank you for stopping by to answer questions. I’m not sure which one of the contributors to ask this of, but I think it best falls under your purview. I’m thinking of taking propecia/finasteride to prevent hair loss. I’m sure you already know that it works by inhibiting 5-alpha reductase’s ability to convert testosterone to DHT. My question is, anabolically speaking, how important do you think DHT is hormonally? I’ve heard some anecdotal stories that it has an effect on certain, traditionally male characteristics–libido, energy–well actually this part is documented, and I’ve heard that it also makes it more difficult to put on muscle and lose fat. I also know that during development, it’s a critical hormone for ensuring normal male development. I’ve been trying to do my homework on pubmed, but have yet to come across any real, definitive studies on the importance of DHT. What’s your take on this issue?[/quote]

Dr.Lowery,
Can you tell me what you think of the “Anabolic Diet” and if you have ever used it or one of its variants before?

Thank you!

Don

TriGWU,
Clever theory. My gut reply was going to involve limited time frames for circulatory effects but you’re Mr. Ultra-Marathon.

If it’s not a problem with the rules of the athletic organization in which you compete, or a problem with the logistics of the competition (availablility while running) it might very well help.

You know, I once had a guest instructor when in San Diego who was a hardcore marathoner who was totally jazzed - pun intended - on the metabolic/ sarcoplasmic benefits of caffeine tabs prior to a race. Of course it has a long half life by regular marathon standards. And I don’t know about the pharmacokinetics of the ingredients in Power Drive.

You know, since fat mobilization is largely blood flow dependent, the ginkgo might… naw, we won’t speculate too hard!

[quote]TriGWU wrote:
Do you think that Power Drive could be beneficial if taken mid-activity.

I only ask in that I compete in very long endurance events anywhere from 4+ hours to 8+ hours. I have had success with Power Drive in my shorter races 2+ hours when just taken before.

I was considering taking another serving at the midway point.[/quote]

PtrDR,
The anabolic diet seems to once again be all the rage here on the Forums. It’s funny how these things come and go.

I think that metabolically there is logic behind it. Cyclic ketogenic dieting has interesting effects. Compliance-wise, I can’t do it well, considering my personal schedule and social environment. By three days (into a very low carb period) I’m about as pleasant as a wet cat. In fact, one of the impetuses (impeti?!) for my study of reducing carbs in the evening was because I could do this in an ongoing fashion - knowing that by tomorrow morning I’d get to eat the carbs again.

Okay, all.

It’s after 9:00 so stick a fork in me.

I’m done.

Thanks for the great discussion tonight. [quote]Happy face stickers and clever questions galore! very impressive.[/quote]

LL

[quote]Lonnie Lowery wrote:
Hi Zen warrior, good to see you here tonight.

I personally deal with sweet tooth episodes with sugar free gelatin or a sweetened protein (Grow!) bar. Even an apple or dried plums or other piece of fruit helps. I’d love to hear what others do.
[/quote]

Lonnie,

Tried and true thing for me is using fake food. Namely, a big glob of fat free/sugar free Cool Whip topping(0 calories) with some chocolate sugar free instant pudding mix(0 calories).

Sweet, chocolate, creamy, no calories, and does not taste like ass.

-Sean

[quote]Lonnie Lowery wrote:
cally,
Good question. Really good. Happy face sticker goes to cally tonight!

The 3.0g per day suggestion we see would provide about a gram of EPA+DHA - at least in standard (non-concentrated) fish oil capsules. It’s been estimated that even 500mg per day can be helpful, though, so this is enough for effects.

Regarding optimal dose, that’s still up in the air. I have studies on my hard drive in which the researchers administered 18 or more grams daily for short periods. Wow! But this is NOT optimal or recommended at all. rather, based on the couple hundred studies I’ve seen, the research dose is often in the 3.0 gram EPA+DHA range.

Plus, this fits nicely into the 3:1 ratio of omega-6 to omega-3 fats that’s often seen as helpful in the literature. (At least when we consider the major fatty acid players.) That is, if we average about 12g of linoleate (omega-6), then 3 grams of EPA+DHA meets the 3:1 ratio. This is FAR better than the 15:1 or 20:1 ratio that’'s underlying part of our modern chronic disease problems! For those who want to push the ratio even lower (I wouldn’t recommend much lower), adding 2 Tbsp flax ups the total omega-3 intake to about 5.5g, or roughly a 2:1 ratio.

I hope this isn’t too confusing!

[/quote]

Thanks for the reply Lonnie, excellent info. Just to reiterate, if my fish oil is 1g and contains 400EPA+200DHA, I would only need to take 3 of these capsules per day? I have currently taking 8, getting 3.2g of EPA and 1.6g of DHA in total. That amount is too much?

Thanks again