Liz Cheney Ousted

Off Topic Politics and World Issues
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Only if you believe Liz Cheney that the only thing that matters is whether or not you supported Trump. Elise Stefanik is her own person.

I listen to quite a bit of Conservative media and the discussion that I hear is not about Trump. The Democrats and mainstream media (but I repeat myself) would like nothing more than to keep campaigning on how much they hate Trump until 2048 if not longer. But most conservatives have just stopped caring.

A good example is Mitt Romney. He definitely was not a Trump supporter. But he seems to have rightly recognized that he needs to move on and talk about other issues. He isn’t being interviewed on cable news talking about how bad Trump is four months after Trump mostly stopped talking. That is exactly what Liz Cheney is doing and is precisely why she is a poor choice to lead the Republican Party in the future. She has no vision.

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22

This was not my impression of Liz’s overall position. I will admit I don’t watch C-SPAN for the floor speeches.

I have no doubt they would, and they would like to avoid talking about their terrible policies. Even if Liz did not exist they would still be able to do this for the next few years as the GOP is fractured openly between pro/anti Trump, and the pro trumpers like MTG are hitting blast out loud. Trump has damaged the Republican party brand immensely (which I called prior to him being elected), and they’ll be paying for it for a while.

For better or worse the Democrats seem to be able to keep a handle on their fringe’s vocals when it comes to the party airwaves. I don’t mean they don’t exist, but that there’s not open dissension in the party at the same level currently.

This is not a good response on the part of conservatives IMO. You can’t sweep Trump’s behavior under the rug. The only way to move on is to say “yeah we fucked up and we don’t like what he did either.” Pretending it’s not a big deal any more because it’s done doesn’t do it for a lot of people, including a lot of conservative leaning people.

Many people may forget their behavior during Trump’s years conveniently, but I don’t. And many other people will not. I said to two jar that by and large Trump’s policy choices weren’t terrible, with a few notable exceptions that I hated. But the schism was never about policy in the first place, and brushing that off won’t sit well with independents and others.

I 100% agree with this. But he has the benefit of having been consistent over the period of time in question. A number of the members trying to say that this is not a big deal do not have that benefit. For example a GOP member who voted against certification of the results telling me that Trump’s behavior was not a big deal and “this is not about right and wrong” doesn’t fly. I don’t give a shit. If Romney says we need to be focused about other things I agree, because pragmatically it’s correct but more importantly he put his money where his mouth was.

Okay, I can see that. But the optics play poorly, and opinion within the party seems to be mixed with a significant portion of people believe she’s being ousted not because of her poor vision but because of her dissension from Trump and desire to move the party away from Trump - incidentally Romney also said something like this on the record. If the reality is that she has no vision, then the party should be unified or nearly so in saying this. See what I’m getting at?

Okay she has no vision, and she didn’t shore up the political relationships that saved her in January February. Fine, but the message from members of the party isn’t unified on that front.

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23

Trump is unavoidable. He has to be addressed one way or the other by the party and party leadership. I fully support moving on from him as I never wanted him in the first place, but you have to do it without sweeping it under the rug and pretending it didn’t happen.

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24

Unbelievable.

Seeing revisionist history happen in real time is beyond surreal to me.

So be it. We’ll see how far away the GTP wants to get from Trump as the race toward the Mid-Terms accelerate.

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25

I never imagined I would be following Christian Conservative satirists to get the best Trump jokes, but here we are in 2021. Big points for weaving in a comedic highlight of the Bush administration and making it relevant today. It’s always funny when someone gets shot in the face and lives to apologize for it.

“Great,” Trump said. “I’ve never hunted before, but I’m probably the best at it. I’m going to kill all the birds.”

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26

A brainwashed cult. A person who has been a conman and corrupt person for his entire life managed to convince a lot of people that numerous GOP officials in different states all worked together to cover up election fraud and get a Democrat elected.

He could bottle his farts and sell them for thousands of dollars to these morons.

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Can and has. I’ve been taking advantage of this ripe market for months now, securing my future as an investor in Dear Leader Memorabilia. I read on the internet that a fart’s smell can be preserved in a well-sealed jar nearly indefinitely, and my portfolio’s performance seems to agree.

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And a lot of Republicans are sitting in the middle of “we can’t win if we make him mad” and “we can’t win if we stay hitched to him.”

It’s understandably a bit of a pickle position, but I think they would behoove themselves to move on. Trump came in with total power and leaves in just four years giving it all to the other side. A massive political failure. Him staying in the spotlight in any way shape or form is really only good for Democrats.

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It’s good for Trump.

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That is true as well. Keep that brand up for further sucking money away from people.

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I do agree with this. However, it is my contention that if messaging from the party leadership and apparatus as a whole was “we need to get away from Trump”, Then you would not have many Republicans sitting in the middle of the first situation, afraid of making Trump angry.

The problem is that the messaging from the leadership has not been explicitly clear or unified whatsoever. When that happens the rank and file faces this kind of situation. Present the united front and a lot of these trepidations are needless.

Pragmatically that’s what should happen and needed to happen. Ethically, or for consistency’s sake, I don’t care. Don’t piss on my leg and tell me it’s raining, and your seat election chances be damned. If you want any credibility with me then put your money where your mouth is.

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Doesn’t seem like it would be that difficult to continue his messaging sans Trump, if they are positions you hold.

But Cheney herself was good example of voting 93% with Trump iirc, but couldn’t move on.

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Maybe, but I could see the reverse being just as true. She called out the party for being hitched to a madman and they wouldn’t move on. “You need to move on” says the people who aren’t willing to move on. What they really mean is stop saying bad things about Trump while we continue to court his favor.

I’d hitch myself to the people who won elections over the ones who lost, but that’s just me.

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It appears once I wrote Trump, you didn’t see my first sentence.

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No I did I was largely talking about how the “she needs to move on” attack I think is weak. It’s been common against her and while I don’t have much of an opinion on Liz Cheney she certainly hasn’t been incorrect on how we should view what happened. It’s just a shame courage in the GOP is in such short supply.

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This is one of the reasons the current situation confuses me so much. On a purely pragmatic level, if you want to pivot on policy then why hook yourself to him when you know he alienates people and you’re looking to pick up seats. My other objections are well known so won’t rehash.

She did. And so that’s another thing that makes no sense. Ok, voted with Trump, but now is kicked out of leadership. On a policy level it doesn’t make sense (she voted with the guy everybody was) so I’m left with alternative explanations.

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It’s obviously a loaded (and partisan) term in the here-and-now… but it really shouldn’t be

So first off, let’s rest assured that the usage/utilization of any ‘Big Lie*’ didn’t begin with nazi Germany. More like, this type of messaging has been with us throughout our history and is often employed by leadership, period. And not just by warlords and supreme theocracy chiefs, neither

Next, let’s consider the Big Lie 2020 for now (not to be confused with the Big Lie 2003, for example) and maybe marvel at how it’s evolved over just a few months:

  • election stolen via massive fraud, period: all Republicans must unite against this gravest of crimes… but then the facts bore out how downballot R’s picked up House seats and only lost one Senate seat, and the (promptly-fired) Cyber Director Krebs and even AG-Barr refused to parrot this earliest version

  • election stolen from Trump, in particular: we’re in the Sidney Powell phase now, where highly-targeted, top-ballot manipulation has been perpetrated… but then, only weeks later, and Powell’s (defamation) lawyers submit the defense that reasonable people would not accept her statements as facts but simply claims that await further testing

  • election fraud really did occur, dammit: we are here… where Trump has avoided the stench of a political loser, and state legislatures are, with breathtaking speed in this modern, do-almost-nothing era, simply representing the “valid” concerns of their constituents

And what version comes next? Is there really any doubt at all?

  • this criminal indictment (and extradition order?) from SDNY+NY State authorities is a continuation of the greatest witchhunt…: sheesh
38

As I’ve said the craziest thing (well definitely not craziest I guess…) has been Republicans sheer shock that Donald Trump could lose. You would think he had Reagan’s approval ratings or something.

You mean to tell me a guy who lost the popular vote to a despised politician and proceeded to carry four years of absolutely abysmal approval ratings ran against someone much more popular than his last opponent (who got 3 million more votes)…lost?!

Get the fuck out of here no way in the world is this possible it must be fraud didn’t you see the size of that crowd in Oklahoma?! Trump called him sleepy Joe! That had to be game over!

39

Oh jeez. Who the heck is Liz Cheney and why is she important? Becauase Democrats did not pull for 3 years that Election was stolen by Russia and Trump is a Russian agent.

At least Trump put some policies and held the country stable, while managing the COVID vaccines at best possible way. There is a reason why Biontec merged with Phizer to get the first vaccine done in no time, followed by Moderna. And that is better policies in US, than Europe.

While Biden and Democrats are bankrupting America and bringing a crisis after crisis. But Orange man bad and mean tweets, man. What I am going to say to my dauther??? The president posted a mean tweet.

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What does that even mean? Policies? Policies are not legislation. Policies, in his case, are just general beliefs without any real substantive thought behind them.

Where have you been the past few years? In a coma?

How do you know it was the best possible way? The answer is, you don’t.

You obviously are ignorant of the spending habits of the federal government when we’ve had Republican presidents. Did Biden inherit a deficit? What about Obama? Clinton?

What does this mean, “bringing” a crisis? How do you “bring” a crisis?

As soon as someone brings out the “Orange man bad” line, I know I am dealing with someone who is uneducated, inexperienced, and immature. You are telling me you get your “news”, beliefs… your entire way of thinking… from Facebook, memes and YouTube. You’re just a parrot.

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