Living With Insomnia

Off Topic
21

[quote]streamline wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:

Good luck friend. It’s a long, hard road, but you’d be amazed some of the things that you forget about that literally keep you up at night. Time to do some diggin.

We’re diggin, seems I like to learn the hard way, but at least I learn. I’ll post any sleeping progress or mile stone discoveries.
Stay strong Bro, this is for life![/quote]

I hear ya, guys. I’ve never slept well, since I was a kid. But my choice of Ambien CR a few times a week works well. And I have to disagree with Irish. Sometimes, diggin brings up nothing but trouble. Some things are best sealed off and forgotten. Remember what happened when they opened the Arc in Indiana Jones?

22

I also struggle from sleeping troubles. I don’t know if I would necessarily classify it as insomnia as I have no trouble going to sleep, its staying asleep thats the problem. Started about 3 years ago and only now am I learning to live with it.

During a good night of sleep I will wake up probably 6 times. Sometimes its just to roll over, fix the blankets, then go back to sleep and other times I have to get up, take a drink of water, go on the computer for a bit then go back to bed. The only thing I’ve found that helps cure this is getting less sleep. Most nights I try for 8, but only really sleep through the night with less than 6 wake ups if I only get 6ish. My dad is the same way, so I’m thinking I just got his sleeping habits.

23

I figured that I would bump this old this old thread instead of starting a new one.

I also suffer from insomnia. It started when I was in my 20’s living in the city next to some assholes who kept their dogs out all night; then I bought a bunch of fans so this helped, but then I started doing shift work and it made it worse.

Now as I am in my 30’s it seems way worse.

For years I took OTC meds until they stopped working.

So now I go to my doc and she usually gives me a prescription for something.

Here are my reviews:

Lunesta, as others said, it takes like shit. The first time that I took it I had an unspeakably bad taste in my mouth the next morning. To add insult to injury, I woke up after 4 hours and really couldn’t get back to sleep.

Ambien; due to it’s short half life also only works 3 or 4 hours for me; but if I take two a night works fine; ambien CRs would work better right? So far, they keep me asleep but are difficult making me fall asleep.

If you are more adventurous there are other things to try:
1)Benzodiazepines. The first one that I tried was xanax. For me this is an ultimate sleep aid, but you can’t take them too much because you will build up tolerance to them and they are addictive. Unfortunately they also have a short half life.

The second one that I tried was valium specifically 10 mg.
At first it worked like a charm, putting me to sleep big time. It also has the longest half life of any benzodiazepine so it will keep you sleep.

I thought that this drug was the wonder drug and it was for the first month, but into the second month it started to give me bad side effects: like a throbbing pain in the back of the head. Then it pretty much stopped working. Quitting it was brutal and it gave brutal rebound insomnia.

In a nut shell don’t fuck around with the benzos.

So right now, I would say that since I stopped taking the valiums, that I have been living off mostly 4 hours of sleep which I can pretty much function off of with a few good nights here and there where I get 5 or 6.

Next time I go to my doc, I am going to ask for referral to a sleep clinic and a prescription for hydroxyzine, which is supposed to be a good anxiolytic and a sedative.

24

[quote]streamline wrote:

Thanks Dirk Gently. That about describes me. The lack of sleep doesn’t really effect my day to day activities. It’s more the frustration of laying there awake for hours. There are only so many things one can do in a day. Tried the joint smoking, works for a bit and then it’s back to normal or should I say abnormal lol. Eight hours, my kingdom for eight hours.

Thanks everyone, I alway appreciate sound advise. I’ll look into all your ideas, thanks again. One more rep!
[/quote]

I’m suprised weed didn’t work. Whenever I have any and I need to sleep a large cone is generally enough to get me to sleep. Incredible dreams.
Damn I need to get a new supply.

edit: maybe it’s because of joint use. I get nothing from a joint, but a cone in the top of a 600ml soda bottle works great for me.

25

Sorry. I hate to be that guy, but try marijuana. I know it’s illegal, but it’s a natural way to release melatonin. I’ve tried sleeping pills, which my body responds to EXTREMELY quickly. Plus, why would you want to put man-made chemicals into your brain?

Anywy, I am an actual insomniac, but as long as I blaze every night before bed I’m guaranteed a great night’s sleep.

26

[quote]SSC wrote:
Sorry. I hate to be that guy, but try marijuana. I know it’s illegal, but it’s a natural way to release melatonin. I’ve tried sleeping pills, which my body responds to EXTREMELY quickly. Plus, why would you want to put man-made chemicals into your brain?

Anywy, I am an actual insomniac, but as long as I blaze every night before bed I’m guaranteed a great night’s sleep.[/quote]

If you want to go there, hard liquor works like a charm for me. Especially if you do it shotgun style, like 5 shots in an hour… It will bring the sleep goddess by your side in no time.

27

I often have issues with both insomnia and circadian rhythm slippage and I’ve tried many of then things listed in this thread.

I used to use Ambien and Lunesta fairly often but the one major downside I found after moderately heavy usage (3-6 nights per week) was that though I’d feel much more rested and alert the next day, my recall and working memory would be ever so slightly impaired.

It took a while to figure out that this was going on because the effect was subtle and I didn’t feel it. This effect became somewhat worse the longer I was on it.

According to my doctor this has to due with the lipid solubility of these compounds and their tendency to build up with heavy usage. I will say that I wouldn’t have noticed the ill effects if it weren’t for the difficulty of the mental tasks I was engaged in.

I still take them occasionally but I limit them to once per week. It’s too bad, because I feel more rested after a night’s sleep on lunesta than I do any other time.

On the prescription front I’ve also tried trazodone. It’s an atypical anti depression med which is used mostly as a sleep aid. It’s less effective than the z-drugs (ambien, lunesta, etc) but doesn’t share the same side effects profile since it’s not operating on the benzo/gaba receptors.

It leaves me groggy in the morning though. It’s an occasional use thing but for me it’s not a first choice.

28

[quote]etaco wrote:

On the prescription front I’ve also tried trazodone. It’s an atypical anti depression med which is used mostly as a sleep aid. It’s less effective than the z-drugs (ambien, lunesta, etc) but doesn’t share the same side effects profile since it’s not operating on the benzo/gaba receptors.

It leaves me groggy in the morning though. It’s an occasional use thing but for me it’s not a first choice.[/quote]

Just out of curiosity, did the trazodone work the first night that you tried it, or did it take a few days to work?

I tried it, but the first night that I did it, it didn’t do anything but make mouth really dry.

29

I don’t really have insomnia or anything, it just takes me a looong time to fall asleep. I do have alot of energy and everything. But the fact that I get around 6 hours of sleep a day just bugs me. I want to get as much out of it as possible, for my mind’s sake aswell as my muscle.

Anyone here tried Z-12 yet? It’s supposed to work wonders, without any of the side effects that chemical products have.

30

[quote]Sick Rick wrote:
Anyone here tried Z-12 yet? It’s supposed to work wonders, without any of the side effects that chemical products have.[/quote]

Yeah, I have. I’ve had insomnia for years. Would wake up about 2-3 AM and not be able to get back to sleep. I tried Z-12 (2 caps) when it first came out and it worked for a bit. I took a while to fall asleep, but when I was out, I was out. I functioned so much better with sleep it was unreal.

Unfortunately the effects don’t kick in any more and I’m back to waking up earlier in the morning than I should be.

Tried melatonin and ZMA, but they really didn’t work.

31

[quote]phil_leotardo wrote:
etaco wrote:

On the prescription front I’ve also tried trazodone. It’s an atypical anti depression med which is used mostly as a sleep aid. It’s less effective than the z-drugs (ambien, lunesta, etc) but doesn’t share the same side effects profile since it’s not operating on the benzo/gaba receptors.

It leaves me groggy in the morning though. It’s an occasional use thing but for me it’s not a first choice.

Just out of curiosity, did the trazodone work the first night that you tried it, or did it take a few days to work?

I tried it, but the first night that I did it, it didn’t do anything but make mouth really dry.

[/quote]

I don’t know about the effects of taking it over the longer term, I just got it for individual nights. It doesn’t work as well as the z drugs, but at an appropriate dose it works somewhat.

32

[quote]streamline wrote:
I’ve had this condition most of my adult life. I pretty much live on less than four hours sleep a night, for weeks at a time. A couple times a month I will crash and sleep like a rock for twelve hours.

When I was in my twenties I was on some kind of sleep medication, but the side effect were to much to handle, twitching and lose of appetite. When I found beer, alcohol induced sleep with zero side effects, six pack a night and I slept like a baby.

Problem was a six pack turned into an eight pack, you get the idea. It really started messing up my workouts, not good at all.

About ten years ago I found, one of a few good workout partners. He turned me onto meditation, It didn’t cure my insomnia but I learned to lay in bed and meditate. This really helped me enable my body to relax into an amazing state of relaxation.

I still only sleep small amounts at a time, but my body was able to recover from my workouts. Pretty much changed my life, I’m not that grumpy asshole I used to be. I find my life is a lot more enjoyable now.

I still get frustrated not being able to sleep, I remember trying naps. What a F’n mistake, zero sleep at night. I’m a bit of a dinosaur when it comes to medication, I like the natural way if I can. Anyone out there living with problem, got any secrets. One more rep![/quote]

Some supplements: Valerian root(fresher = better), Kava Kava(fresher = Better), melatonin, phenibut(be careful, this can produce withdrawals)(it is in Z-12). And if your insomnia is that bad, go for something like ambien, pot, lunesta or xyrem.

33

I’ve had sleep problems in the past. I mentioned before that I could hardly reach REM sleep for months at a time because I suffered horribly from ‘myoclonic jerks’ …everytime I started to drift off… BAM- jerked awake by possessed limbs. This went on long enough and was so severe I had to go to a sleep clinic, I knew I had to when one of my jerks caused me to bite my tongue and bleed.

I saw a neurologist, they tested me for seizures…nope, normal brain function (surprise!). They told me that soldiers that return from wars are the people that display these symptoms most often. They gave me Klonopin of all things. A few weeks later I was back in there, I hated that shit. I wanted off it. Anyway long story shortened, I was living under very stressful circumstances. My subconscious and my body teamed up and rebelled against me. I was burnt up, wound up, and spent. I had to change my whole life to make it stop, and I did. With no drugs.

I still don’t sleep normally. I tend to be awake at odd hours of the night and sleep in the day. I don’t work until 3:30 in the afternoon, so that’s what I do. Sleep is sleep, I’m getting it at odd times, but I’m getting it…most of the time. I have never been a person that falls asleep quickly, I’m so envious when somebody can just put their head on the pillow and go out like a light. I’d have to run six marathons to achieve that I think, and instead I run them in my mind as I lay there.

Alcohol is defintely not a fix for sleep issues. You may pass out or sleep heavily (more like comatose) but it is also a depressant…that one can become chemically dependent upon, and I don’t know if anybody here has ever drank for a week, then stopped and tried sleeping unaided…but it’s a bitch best avoided.

As for marijuana…I know everybody says it relaxes them. I am never relaxed when I smoke. I don’t know what it is, but all of a sudden I start thinking I should be doing a thousand things at once. Then I do. Only I don’t finish a single one of them. First I’m looking for the remote, then I forget I’m looking for the remote and I’m thirsty, on the way to the kitchen I notice the plant needs watering so I go to get water, except on the way to get water I just remembered I have to write the rent check, oh jesus the rent check…and on and on and on. It all ends with me surrounded by a shitload of open drawers and cabinets and various other openable things, with me trying to lay in bed and sleep but instead obsessing over some lame thing I said to my sister last week.

Can anybody shed some light on why the fuck pot affects me that way? It never used to when I was a teenager, I used to laugh my ass off and have all sorts of fun doing the stupid things you think are awesome when you’re high. Like, wadding up wet toilet paper and pitching it to your friend who’s holding a cardboard empty napkin roll for a bat and smacking it against the wall. Playing super mario brothers and cutting class. Yeah, good times.

So pot would be great, but it seems to somehow enhance the unpleasant things of reality for me, instead of dull them. Suddenly my world from that view seems very …vulnerable, and I get the overwhelming feeling I’m not controlling it. It feels like my senses are hyper aware, and that’s what I’m trying to avoid in the first place. Right? To relax?

Potheads of the universe…any thoughts?

34

I take 3 GABA caps and drink 2 cups of Valerian Root tea every night about 10 hours before I need to wake up the next day. With in 1 hour I have a hard time staying awake, if I have to take a piss I will stumble around like I am drunk. When I wake up in the morning I feel great, more refreshed then when I was taking Ambien, drinking, or smoking weed.

35

Try 150mg of trazadone to knock you out. Typcially they prescribe it at 50mg, for sleep. With that said, I tried it and didn’t like it very much. It took me at least a solid 2 hours in the morning after waking to start functioning. As of late I just tried to time my workouts better and work so that I’m crashing around 11:00p.m. every night. Its better, but after trying a few sleep meds I didn’t find them helpful nor something I would want to have to relay on for something other than than temporary.

36

[quote]Molotov_Coktease wrote:
I’ve had sleep problems in the past. I mentioned before that I could hardly reach REM sleep for months at a time because I suffered horribly from ‘myoclonic jerks’ …everytime I started to drift off… BAM- jerked awake by possessed limbs. This went on long enough and was so severe I had to go to a sleep clinic, I knew I had to when one of my jerks caused me to bite my tongue and bleed.

I saw a neurologist, they tested me for seizures…nope, normal brain function (surprise!). They told me that soldiers that return from wars are the people that display these symptoms most often. They gave me Klonopin of all things. A few weeks later I was back in there, I hated that shit. I wanted off it. Anyway long story shortened, I was living under very stressful circumstances. My subconscious and my body teamed up and rebelled against me. I was burnt up, wound up, and spent. I had to change my whole life to make it stop, and I did. With no drugs.

I still don’t sleep normally. I tend to be awake at odd hours of the night and sleep in the day. I don’t work until 3:30 in the afternoon, so that’s what I do. Sleep is sleep, I’m getting it at odd times, but I’m getting it…most of the time. I have never been a person that falls asleep quickly, I’m so envious when somebody can just put their head on the pillow and go out like a light. I’d have to run six marathons to achieve that I think, and instead I run them in my mind as I lay there.

Alcohol is defintely not a fix for sleep issues. You may pass out or sleep heavily (more like comatose) but it is also a depressant…that one can become chemically dependent upon, and I don’t know if anybody here has ever drank for a week, then stopped and tried sleeping unaided…but it’s a bitch best avoided.

As for marijuana…I know everybody says it relaxes them. I am never relaxed when I smoke. I don’t know what it is, but all of a sudden I start thinking I should be doing a thousand things at once. Then I do. Only I don’t finish a single one of them. First I’m looking for the remote, then I forget I’m looking for the remote and I’m thirsty, on the way to the kitchen I notice the plant needs watering so I go to get water, except on the way to get water I just remembered I have to write the rent check, oh jesus the rent check…and on and on and on. It all ends with me surrounded by a shitload of open drawers and cabinets and various other openable things, with me trying to lay in bed and sleep but instead obsessing over some lame thing I said to my sister last week.

Can anybody shed some light on why the fuck pot affects me that way? It never used to when I was a teenager, I used to laugh my ass off and have all sorts of fun doing the stupid things you think are awesome when you’re high. Like, wadding up wet toilet paper and pitching it to your friend who’s holding a cardboard empty napkin roll for a bat and smacking it against the wall. Playing super mario brothers and cutting class. Yeah, good times.

So pot would be great, but it seems to somehow enhance the unpleasant things of reality for me, instead of dull them. Suddenly my world from that view seems very …vulnerable, and I get the overwhelming feeling I’m not controlling it. It feels like my senses are hyper aware, and that’s what I’m trying to avoid in the first place. Right? To relax?

Potheads of the universe…any thoughts?
[/quote]

Check out what kind of strain you are getting. Go for a Indica strain, they are for more of a body high. Sativa is more of a head high. If you are in a state with medical marijuana; get a card and go to one of the shops. Ask for something for sleep, they should suggest purples or indica.

The more you smoke, the easier it is to control your actions and your memory when your high. Something you can do is make a list of things you need to do and then do them. Be sure that you will be able to relax when your high. A vaporizer might help also.

=====================================================

Also, smart move on not using alcohol for a sleep-aid. If you really want the best sleep in your life, go for GHB. But be warned, GHB can be easy to overdose on. But used in a safe manner, helps you stay in REM sleep for a LONG time. And if you mix it with alcohol, be aware that Darwin might be popping his head.

Also, may I ask what State/country you are in. I may be able to better inform you. Be sure to talk with a doctor before jumping into any of these items.

37

[quote]Molotov_Coktease wrote:
I’ve had sleep problems in the past. I mentioned before that I could hardly reach REM sleep for months at a time because I suffered horribly from ‘myoclonic jerks’ …everytime I started to drift off… BAM- jerked awake by possessed limbs. This went on long enough and was so severe I had to go to a sleep clinic, I knew I had to when one of my jerks caused me to bite my tongue and bleed.

I saw a neurologist, they tested me for seizures…nope, normal brain function (surprise!). They told me that soldiers that return from wars are the people that display these symptoms most often. They gave me Klonopin of all things. A few weeks later I was back in there, I hated that shit. I wanted off it. Anyway long story shortened, I was living under very stressful circumstances. My subconscious and my body teamed up and rebelled against me. I was burnt up, wound up, and spent. I had to change my whole life to make it stop, and I did. With no drugs.

I still don’t sleep normally. I tend to be awake at odd hours of the night and sleep in the day. I don’t work until 3:30 in the afternoon, so that’s what I do. Sleep is sleep, I’m getting it at odd times, but I’m getting it…most of the time. I have never been a person that falls asleep quickly, I’m so envious when somebody can just put their head on the pillow and go out like a light. I’d have to run six marathons to achieve that I think, and instead I run them in my mind as I lay there.

Alcohol is defintely not a fix for sleep issues. You may pass out or sleep heavily (more like comatose) but it is also a depressant…that one can become chemically dependent upon, and I don’t know if anybody here has ever drank for a week, then stopped and tried sleeping unaided…but it’s a bitch best avoided.

As for marijuana…I know everybody says it relaxes them. I am never relaxed when I smoke. I don’t know what it is, but all of a sudden I start thinking I should be doing a thousand things at once. Then I do. Only I don’t finish a single one of them. First I’m looking for the remote, then I forget I’m looking for the remote and I’m thirsty, on the way to the kitchen I notice the plant needs watering so I go to get water, except on the way to get water I just remembered I have to write the rent check, oh jesus the rent check…and on and on and on. It all ends with me surrounded by a shitload of open drawers and cabinets and various other openable things, with me trying to lay in bed and sleep but instead obsessing over some lame thing I said to my sister last week.

Can anybody shed some light on why the fuck pot affects me that way? It never used to when I was a teenager, I used to laugh my ass off and have all sorts of fun doing the stupid things you think are awesome when you’re high. Like, wadding up wet toilet paper and pitching it to your friend who’s holding a cardboard empty napkin roll for a bat and smacking it against the wall. Playing super mario brothers and cutting class. Yeah, good times.

So pot would be great, but it seems to somehow enhance the unpleasant things of reality for me, instead of dull them. Suddenly my world from that view seems very …vulnerable, and I get the overwhelming feeling I’m not controlling it. It feels like my senses are hyper aware, and that’s what I’m trying to avoid in the first place. Right? To relax?

Potheads of the universe…any thoughts?
[/quote]

For me if I take a few hits it can often make me mellow, but other times it will actually give me some anxiety; it’s too unpredictable for me to be a good sleep aid. Anything beyond a “few hits” and I get lost following pointless thoughts; too much “in my head.”

38

[quote]etaco wrote:

I don’t know about the effects of taking it over the longer term, I just got it for individual nights. It doesn’t work as well as the z drugs, but at an appropriate dose it works somewhat.[/quote]

Like I said, I gave it a shot at 50 mg and truthfully it actually made my heart rate pick up a bit and my mouth very dry and feel kind of awful. I wasn’t sure if it was one of those things that maybe worked better for you after a few nights.

What sucks even more is how cheap it is; Walmart sells the generic, 30 day supply for 4 bucks. This would have been a godsend if it had actually worked.

39

I think 99% of people who say they have insomnia don’t have it. Sort of like all these kids who are supposed to have ADD.

40

[quote]SeanT wrote:
Check out what kind of strain you are getting. Go for a Indica strain, they are for more of a body high. Sativa is more of a head high. If you are in a state with medical marijuana; get a card and go to one of the shops. Ask for something for sleep, they should suggest purples or indica.

The more you smoke, the easier it is to control your actions and your memory when your high. Something you can do is make a list of things you need to do and then do them. Be sure that you will be able to relax when your high. A vaporizer might help also.

=====================================================

Also, smart move on not using alcohol for a sleep-aid. If you really want the best sleep in your life, go for GHB. But be warned, GHB can be easy to overdose on. But used in a safe manner, helps you stay in REM sleep for a LONG time. And if you mix it with alcohol, be aware that Darwin might be popping his head.

Also, may I ask what State/country you are in. I may be able to better inform you. Be sure to talk with a doctor before jumping into any of these items.[/quote]

I appreciate the suggestions SeanT- honestly, I’m managing the sleep much better than I used to. Not perfect, but I don’t feel the need to delve into GHB. Also, if I have to work at feeling good while being high with regards to pot, it kind of defeats the purpose for me. I just wanted to know why it affected me the particular ways it did in the past.