Livestream Debate Between Danny Bossa and Viking Alternative Medicine

No, you have not.

I’ve asked probably fifteen times for your evidence that LOWERING ESTRADIOL IN MEN improves their health.

You’ve ignored every single request. So you are not worth my time and have no business being here.

Just address this one. It meets all your criteria. Like ooh can’t be a mouse study…ooh can’t be a rat study…ooh can’t be an association. Just answer this one:

THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH LOWERING ESTRADIOL IN MEN TO IMPROVE THEIR HEALTH

You’re either an idiot or you’re a troll. There is literally no other logical alternative.

Can you provide me one, yes or no??

OMG…are you not the one that called estrogen “cancer protective”. So I can’t post a freaking study on how exemestane kills gastric cancer? C’mon man.

U set up all the rules. And then you change them as the game goes on. Really pathetic dude.

There are zero studies that I’m aware of that shows using an AI to reduce estrogen to a level of 20-40 produces any harm. Show me one.

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I provided a ton of studies demonstrating the benefits of estradiol, which you didn’t read. In every study where they lowered it, by any degree, they got worse. But here you are wanting to lower it. I also asked you for a study where they lowered estradiol and the men improved which you failed to do.

You’re a troll.

Is their a posted version of this debate? I missed the live one.

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I’m reading thru that first study, pointing out toxicity of AI’s compared to tamoxifen (since that was the study parameters)

‘The overall therapeutic index of AIs appears today superior to that of tamoxifen with proven improved efficacy and better toxicity profile‘

The doses given were meant to reduce estrogen to zero, since this is on women after breast cancer. Doses were given daily. Side effects were consistent with removal of estrogen: bone issues, hip fractures, lack of sex drive.

I’m failing to see how this applied to men taking .25-.5mg anastrozole per week, assuming that does not reduce estrogen to zero.

I think you have better luck arguing your case based on the thousands of patients you’ve seen who feel better after stopping their AI use than these studies

This is the conclusion from the second study, that started off saying AI’s were more toxic than tamoxifen but finished by saying:

The researchers write, “The cumulative toxicity of aromatase inhibitors when used as up-front treatment may explain the lack of overall survival benefit despite improvements in disease-free survival. Switching from tamoxifen to aromatase inhibitors reduces this toxicity and is likely the best balance between efficacy and toxicity.”

They are including tamoxifen in the category of AI (incorrectly) for the purpose of their study. Don’t know why.

The titles of these studies sounds appealing but the actual content isn’t justifying the argument.

The third study is just the abstract, so we can’t see how they actually conducted it, what they tested for, how they did it, etc

I found this study interesting, it shows estradiol have positive and negative effects at different levels in humans

“Estrogen can sustain libido as well as affect the amount of serotonin receptors in the brain modulating mood, mental state, cognition, and emotion. Erectile function is adversely affected by estrogen exposure in early penile development, and exposure to estradiol in the mature penis leads to increased vascular permeability with increased ED. ED from increased estradiol exposure is independent of testosterone level.”

I think I’m done trying to explain because none of you can grasp simple concepts. This place isn’t worth my time.

This study lists the things, good and bad, that are associated with estradiol. Association doesn’t prove causation. You need to either raise or lower estradiol in a man to see what the outcome is. And every single study that it was lowered it caused harm. And every single study where it was raised it created benefits. Everyone here continues trying to find a reason why they would want to continue taking an aromatase inhibitor to lower it just a little bit in order to lower the benefits just a little bit. It is the most illogical, irrational thing imaginable.

“But I only want to lower it a little bit.”

Why? None of you are getting it.

My time here is up.

Reading the third article now, but can see by the title of the fourth study talking about bone issues we know that when estrogen is removed it results in bone loss, so don’t really need to dig into that one

Edit: ok third one is comparing daily Letro for ten years to daily letro for 5 years then placebo for 5 years. Letro 10yr group didn’t extend life any longer than Letro 5yr group.

Again, what does that have to do with men controlling estrogen?

This @crashnet guy is annoying as fuck. What a little bitch. Men don’t argue or call people names, you too @dbossa. At this point. Who cares? Just take your AI and move on. Im at 310mg/wk with no AI and feel great. That much T could wreck someone else. We’re not all the same. I understand @dbossa mission to save men from disaster, and I understand the argument against it, but some assholes have simply made it their mission to make Danny look like a snake oil salesman. He is actually telling you not to take something that you shouldnt have to pay for. All of these studies are weak. Funny thing about Estrogen is it doesnt ruin me. Someone else might lose their mind if it gets too high. I was going bald last year, and Im now growing my hair long because its actually gotten thicker and full. HCT was 53 on 220mg and HCT is down to 51 on 310mg. The key to my success is in drinking lots of water, ejaculating once a day into a beautiful woman, and eating only food that I have to make, with a healthy serving of beer. Abs are showing, chest is blocky, and my ass is now a subject of discussion amongst my closest friends. Im riding high on Estrogen, yet I feel the need to tell grown men to stop being little bitches. Settle down and make your case with evidence for future readers to make a decision. Not to just be a post happy son of gun.

Just curious, have you had your estradiol tested, or are you assuming your E2 is high because you are not taking an AI?

@middleages

I find it amusing that you state the studies are weak. How many studies did I provide? A lot, that’s how much. But they are all weak. Yet when I ask any of you to provide me with just one study that demonstrates a benefit from lowering estradiol in a man for the purpose of symptom relief none of you can send me even one.

That’s hypocrisy at its finest which is why I need to leave this place.

Yes, I have had it tested, recently switched docs so my most recent test is going to be in January. My previous Doc was constantly telling me to take take a 1/4 of a pill, and suggested I raise my dose when I last tested with him. I always humored him and never told him that I wasnt taking it. I simply dont need it because I dont have negative side effects, and if I did I would have to stick to the protocol. No changing or adding things to complicate a bad day or side effect.

Studies are weak in general because they can be countered with another study. Thats what Im trying to say. Studies are like playing Pokemon card games with a kid. Nobody really understands the game. I dont deny evidence, its why I dont take an AI. This is not an attack on you or @crashnet. Its exhausting having to see this type of behaviour being used as a track to deliver the news. Just present your evidence and it will shine. Im all for show and tell. Just gotta chill with the name calling and force feed attitude coming from all camps.