[quote]BJ* wrote:
So am I understanding correctly that statins can lower T levels? Thanks in advance for clarification.[/quote]
T levels can be affected by the type of fats that you eat and cholesterol levels. For some but perhaps no charges for most on status. All, I would be expect, would be affected by unhealthy dietary fats.
Some do report a loss of libido.
[quote]KSman wrote:
T levels can be affected by the type of fats that you eat and cholesterol levels. For some but perhaps no charges for most on status. All, I would be expect, would be affected by unhealthy dietary fats.
Some do report a loss of libido.[/quote]
What do you consider unhealthy dietary fats?
[quote]BJ* wrote:
So am I understanding correctly that statins can lower T levels? Thanks in advance for clarification.[/quote]
I’m wondering now if taking the statin is the reason why I have not had significant gains/fat loss plus muscle aches and pains, despite hard and consistent workouts the last 7 months (+ supplementing with Alpha Male/Carbolin 19 and “stronger” stuff also)…
[quote]smallnomore wrote:
What do you consider unhealthy dietary fats?[/quote]
Animal, dairy, damaged fats [high temp frying], trans-fats and some vege oils are bad for you. Search and read up on essential fatty acids. You need these for healthy cell wall permeability. The other fats to not function the same. Brain affected too and mom’s who lack EFA’s have kids who develop slower, physical and mental. Parts of the brain, nervous system and retina do not renew and EFA profile of mother and early life as a baby has a profound affect. That is a demonstration of whats at stake.
Fish oil is the best source of DHA and EPA EFAs that one can get. See the movie “super size me”
[quote]Blacksnake wrote:
BJ* wrote:
So am I understanding correctly that statins can lower T levels? Thanks in advance for clarification.
I’m wondering now if taking the statin is the reason why I have not had significant gains/fat loss plus muscle aches and pains, despite hard and consistent workouts the last 7 months (+ supplementing with Alpha Male/Carbolin 19 and “stronger” stuff also)…
[/quote]
Easy way to find out, stop taking it for a month. Could also take 80-100mg/day of CoQ10. If that helps, you would know that you had a drug induced CoQ10 deficiency.
When my wife stopped Lipitor, she was feeling way better in 2 weeks.
[quote]KSman wrote:
smallnomore wrote:
What do you consider unhealthy dietary fats?
Animal, dairy, damaged fats [high temp frying], trans-fats and some vege oils are bad for you. Search and read up on essential fatty acids. You need these for healthy cell wall permeability. The other fats to not function the same. Brain affected too and mom’s who lack EFA’s have kids who develop slower, physical and mental. Parts of the brain, nervous system and retina do not renew and EFA profile of mother and early life as a baby has a profound affect. That is a demonstration of whats at stake.
Fish oil is the best source of DHA and EPA EFAs that one can get. See the movie “super size me”[/quote]
I understand what you are getting at, but you should be careful about labeling certain fats as “bad.” We need saturated fat, and the best place to get it is from animal fats or dairy. The biggest problem with animal fats now (specifically beef) is that the omega6:omega3 ratio is too high because of the grains they are fed.
But free-range beef and chicken can (and I would argue, should) be a part of a good diet. As are eggs and dairy products.
[quote]swordthrower wrote:
I understand what you are getting at, but you should be careful about labeling certain fats as “bad.” We need saturated fat, and the best place to get it is from animal fats or dairy. The biggest problem with animal fats now (specifically beef) is that the omega6:omega3 ratio is too high because of the grains they are fed.
But free-range beef and chicken can (and I would argue, should) be a part of a good diet. As are eggs and dairy products.[/quote]
In general I have to agree. But in today’s society, it might be impossible for most to not get sufficient saturated fats. We are not in danger of any omega6 deficiencies.
[quote]KSman wrote:
swordthrower wrote:
I understand what you are getting at, but you should be careful about labeling certain fats as “bad.” We need saturated fat, and the best place to get it is from animal fats or dairy. The biggest problem with animal fats now (specifically beef) is that the omega6:omega3 ratio is too high because of the grains they are fed.
But free-range beef and chicken can (and I would argue, should) be a part of a good diet. As are eggs and dairy products.
In general I have to agree. But in today’s society, it might be impossible for most to not get sufficient saturated fats. We are not in danger of any omega6 deficiencies.[/quote]
Agreed!
[quote]swordthrower wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
Actually, there are absolutely no clinical studies which show that cholesterol levels are correlated with risk of heart disease. All the studies which are used to promote statin drugs are inconclusive at best, and most are epidemiological. Lifestyle habits (including a high-refined-carb diet) probably have a lot more impact on your heart disease risk than anything, as you suggest.
But the fact is, pharmaceutical companies can’t make money off of people who eat well and exercise regularly![/quote]
Well unfortunately your there.
Start with the primary studies like MrFit, Framingham and The Seven Countries studies. Secondary studies include 4S, WOSCOP, TNT and HPS. Most of these have been published in The Lancet (not some shitbag journal).
There is indeed a direct correlation between cholesterol and your risk of having a cardiac event. Lowering your cholesterol if you’ve had an event, reduces the risk of a second event. Diabetics have even stronger data. Treat 17 patients witha statin (over 5 years) and prevent one serious cardiac event. Don’t sound like much? Estimate the cost to health insurers (and families), and this is actually cheap treatment.
A reduction of LDL alone, while decreasing relative risk, is not the be-all-and-all. Smoking. genetics and lifestyle also play a role.
The research also concludes thatthere are 7 different LDL size molecules, and the denser molecule is more athrogenic. Lukily, statins reduce all sized LDL and IDL levels, as well as CRP, apoB and increases in HDL.
Yes, there is big money to be made. But guess what? That makes the world go around. It also means these pharmaceutical companies also produce many other medication that most on this board are probably taking.
As for negative stories on any issue - check the quality of journal, and wether it has been peered reviewed. I have published many science articles, and I can tell you, my research wasn’t groundbreaking enough to make The Lancet, or the New England Joiurnal of medicine. But the body evidence definately says that reduce reduce cardiovascular risk and events.
I wanted to bump this thread because I was researching Lipitor and I remember posting in this thread.
I have been on 10mg of Lipitor for about 2 yrs. Started to get pain in my right arm. Assumed it was training related. Then got the same pain in my left arm. Now I’m saying WTF? Thought it might be the Lipitor. I laid off it for about a week. Pain went way down. The doc checked certain protien levels and then said they were elevated and to stop Lipitor. Wants me to wait 4 weeks and get retested. Also wants me to get a stress test since I am 45. Said if it’s clean that I might not need to take Lipitor anymore. Should he have ordered this test first?
Any thoughts or experience with this on the nation? Do the symptoms go away completely after stopping lipitor?
I am an otherwise healthy 20 year old student and I have been on statins since I was 17. I was prescribed a 20mg/day dosage of Crestor when I was 17. At this time I was eating healthy and exercising 3-4 times per week and my cholesterol was 380. I stopped taking my Crestor in February and had bloodwork done in August. My total cholesterol was 360. Anyone with some advice?
Reply to both posts above today:
Muscle pain on statins can be caused by reduction of CoQ10 produced in the liver. This impairs mitochondria and can lead to many issues, including muscle problems. This is serious as your heart muscles would also be impaired. This can be totally rectified by taking CoQ10 supplements. If you do that you do not have to stop the statins.
Some on statins also have libido problems, memory problems, feeling stupid, that are often not CoQ10 related.
In men and women, cholesterol problems are a symptom of hormone problems and HRT can reduce cholesterol, even very high familial cholesterol levels.
For me, starting TRT lowered my total cholesterol from 270’s to 206 then 202. HDL levels do not usually change.
Sronghold: At your age, it is hard to believe that you have hormone issues. But if you do not check you will never know. If testosterone and estrogen are at decent levels, perhaps DHEA or pregnenolone are low. Your dietary fats may be out of balance. Niacin can be used to improve cholesterol… if you can tolerate it.
[quote]Andrew Dixon wrote:
You should check out the book The Cholesterol Myths by Uffe Ravnskov.
Then you can make your own mind up weather you want to be using usless cholesterol lowering drugs for a harmless condition.
[/quote]
I agree
EDIT: Read this work of brilliance by TC
Try taking Red Yeast Rice. I used to date a girl who worked at a supplement store. They had people coming in nearly on a daily basis complaining about the side effects that they were getting from taking Lipitor.
Ever notice how the commercials say “do not take Lipitor if you have liver problems”? That’s because it basically destroys your liver (or at least that’s a side effect that a lot of people I know who have been on it complained about).
Anyways, every time someone would come in complaining about Lipitor, the supplement store people would put them on Red Yeast Rice. They had people coming in all the time saying “wow, thank you so much, my cholesterol is down and I have absolutely no negative side effects”! In fact, I don’t ever recall hearing someone come in and say that Red Yeast Rice had not worked, or had resulted in some sort of negative side effect.
Hey, it’s worth a shot right? I’m pretty sure it’s a lot cheaper than Lipitor, and unless perhaps you were allergic to it, it doesn’t have any negative side effects. If it didn’t work you could always go back to Lipitor. If it did work you could have lowered cholesterol and no negative side effects.
Good training,
Sentoguy
Update for me is that I only took it for about 8 weeks, up to my next test and it only dropped my LDL levels by about 15%. HDL was untouched.
the doc went to 20 mg’s and wrote a prescription and I went to fill it (I was using a big stack of promo packs before the blood test.)
$70 for lipitor…turned out Pacificare HMO had other subs for a 30 dollar copay, but I’d have to re-do my scrip…so I stopped the transaction.
I just stopped my pursuit in Cholesterol lowering drugs and have been taking RYR, Fish Oil and Policosanol as a daily supp.
Most doctors are criminals or whores for the pharmaceutical companies. No one needs any of this statin bullshit. Eat steaks, butter, bacon, and quit listening to these shitheads who hate the fact that life might be enjoyable. Who wants to live like a Buddhist monk?
Statins, and most drugs, are the biggest joke ever played on humanity.
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Most doctors are criminals or whores for the pharmaceutical companies. No one needs any of this statin bullshit. Eat steaks, butter, bacon, and quit listening to these shitheads who hate the fact that life might be enjoyable. Who wants to live like a Buddhist monk?
Statins, and most drugs, are the biggest joke ever played on humanity.[/quote]
But what about Dr. Jarvis, who dedicated his life to heart reeaerch after his dad had a heart attack…he says it’s so good, it will allow you to be around for your own children!
[quote]Rockscar wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
Most doctors are criminals or whores for the pharmaceutical companies. No one needs any of this statin bullshit. Eat steaks, butter, bacon, and quit listening to these shitheads who hate the fact that life might be enjoyable. Who wants to live like a Buddhist monk?
Statins, and most drugs, are the biggest joke ever played on humanity.
But what about Dr. Jarvis, who dedicated his life to heart reeaerch after his dad had a heart attack…he says it’s so good, it will allow you to be around for your own children![/quote]
What about being around for your grandchildren? Statins eat your kidneys and destroy your mitochondria.
Want to restore/maintain good health? Walk. Humans as a species walked for hours every day for hundreds of thousands of years. Now we hope some ‘magic’ pill will take the place of that?
Get on a treadmill or go outside and walk at a fast pace for an hour. There’s no magic pills and you get to stop making vacation condo payments for scumbag doctors and pharmaceutical executives.