T Nation

Lipitor


#1

Anyone had a good experience from Lipitor?

Cholesterol reading was 258. I'm on 10 MGPD.

Any sides?


#2

You should check out the book The Cholesterol Myths by Uffe Ravnskov.

Then you can make your own mind up weather you want to be using usless cholesterol lowering drugs for a harmless condition.

:slight_smile:


#3

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=16873939&query_hl=4&itool=pubmed_docsum

Also, check out www.thincs.org for more of Uffe Ravnskov and many other good doctors.


#4

I was on that same dosage for about 6 weeks for the same lipid level. It dropped my total cholesterol down to 160, but I had a persistent migraine headache behind my left eye that I couldn't put up with for life. I dropped the Lipitor and the migraine went away with a couple of days.

I noted no other ill effects.


#5

No point in suggesting TRT to reduce your cholesterol levels.... works for some and worked well for me.

This issue naturally leads to a discussion of mitochondria.

Statin drugs can kill hormone levels for a few, more so women. But for anyone on TRT who has shut down their HPTA may be protected from those effects. 10mg of lipitor killed my wife's libido and created other symptoms of hormone imbalances. When she stopped the lipitor, all of those problems cleared up very quickly. She was taking CoQ10 before and all through the lipitor use, so the problems were there even with the CoQ10 supplements. Her cholesterol dropped from 270 to 160. So the problem in that case would seem to be simply from cholesterol been pushed too low.

Statin drugs reduce cholesterol, but the process of that also reduces the production of CoQ10 in the liver. CoQ10 is needed by the mitochondria in ones cells, to produce the fuel that the cells use to function. One can take CoQ10 supplements and many take such anyways.

Cholesterol is the substrate for other steroid based hormones such as pregnenolone and DHEA. These might decrease even if your T is kept up by TRT or gear. The mitochondria produce pregnenolone from cholesterol. So that process might take a double hit with reduced cholesterol and reduced CoQ10 effects on the mitochondria . Pregnenolone and DHEA have many benefits other than as raw materials for sex hormone production. Some take DHEA and pregnenolone as supplements. However, some do not respond to those as they either do not absorb or there body clears these for some reason. I am low on those via blood work and taking 100mg/day of each I was still low. Note that if you are on TRT and also using HCG, the action of HCG on the testes will create a demand for DHEA to create T.

Acetyl-L-carnitine and lipoic acid are known to improve the function of mitochondria. Other forms of carnitine such as Acetyl-L-carnitine arginate and others are now also been used for better bioavailability. These need to be complemented with B vitamins and anti-oxidants. One needs to appreciate the concepts of mitochondrial function and health. Simply knowing that there are terms such as "mitochondrial disorders" give these issues importance. Part of aging is aging of the mitochondria. Some of this is reversible with supplements.

Your cells cannot be healthy if your mitochondria are not and you cannot be more healthy than the health of your individual cells. Much is known about processes that effect that as much has been learn from in-vitro studies of cells.

So there are problems with statin drugs for some. For some, QoQ10 will be a good fix. For others, there can be problems that seem to require that you put up with sides or stop the drug. If your libido is working very well, you can be quite sensitive/aware of changes and go from there.

Many suggest that you do not take cholesterol below 200. Some docs [insanely] think that the lower the better. Let your feelings be your guide and you do not like the effects, try 5mg/day. Some high cholesterol levels are not a risk if HDL:LDL ratios are good. And there are other risk factors such as c-reactive protein and homocysteine. If those are low and cholesterol is up, then risks are actually low. Other things that would indicate lower risk would be low fat, active life style, lean body mass, no blood sugar issues, good hormone state, moderate alcohol use, not smoking, no gum disease, higher income and higher learning/accomplishment, intake of EFAs such as fish oils. Family history must also be factored in.

I have a bad habit of not having simple answers...


#6

Been on Lipitor for a while now. They started me on 10mg, then upped it to 40mg, with a 10 mg zetia. Cholesterol went from 240 to 160 and all levels are good. Combined it with increase of cardio and no problems.

I have not had any strength decrease of muscle fatigue. I eat 7 times a day though and at 56 almost 57 I have no other side effects from it.
My buddy at work had cholesterol over 500 and had a heart attack at age 42. They put him on 20mg then upped to 40 with zetia and diet. He is now after 4 yrs down to 230 cholesterol.
Good luck with it.


#7

Some folks, male and female, with very high levels, often from familial disposition, respond well to HRT to reduce levels, sometimes without any statins involved. Things act like high C levels are a response to low hormones and restoration of hormones leads to lower cholesterol. Therapy includes pregnenolone, DHEA, T or E. May also involve thyroid hormones if those are off.


#8

I have taken it in the past I was in the 260 neighborhood myself with 160 LDL. After a couple months of 10mg/ED it dropped to like 175 with 100LDL, 55HDL. I did that for about 1 1/2 years then I stopped. 4 months after I stopped I retested my cholesterol it was back in the 230's.

I re-started Lipitor but this time I got severe back aches.

Now I'm trying combos of CoQ10, Red Yeast Rice, Fish Oil and a triple fiber mix. Now I'm back down at 190 with 110LDL and 52 HDL. So basically the natural way is almost as good as the Lipitor with no sides.


#9

"I have a bad habit of not having simple answers..."

It was an excellent answer.

I was on a statin drug which I recall as Lipitor -- perhaps it was a similar drug. My body felt as if it has been hit by a truck. Within 36 hours of stopping medication, I felt normal.

The same doctor suggested Cholestene, which is red yeast rice. At the time, there was talk of the FDA taking it off the market. But it's still available.

Anyway I thought to myself, "Sure, Doc. I'll take your foo-foo herbal concoction that won't do anything because you've been so good writing me scripts for HRT."

Darn if the foo-foo pills didn't knock 30 points off of my cholesterol without one whit of a change in diet. You might want to research Cholestene as an alternative. It's roughly 30 dollars a month.

I've also used Zetia with good results and no perceivable side effects.


#10

There are plenty and you can find them all on the web. Tell you what I did....

1) Went on a low carb diet for 2 months 2) Drank two glasses of red wine a day 3) Ate two cloves of raw garlic a day
4) 150Mg of CoQ 10 a day
5) 1- 1 1/2 cups almonds a day
6) 1/2 cup of green olives a day
7) Cut out all refined sugars, rice, bread and pasta
8) 5000Mgs of Ester C
9) Drank a ton of water
10) Worked out like a monster
11) Took 10-15Grams of flax and fish oil a day

and my overall cholesterol dropped by 79 points. Bad went down by over 100Pts and my good cholesterol went up by 21Pts and my BP fell by an average of 16Pts

There is a ton of shit on how to lower you cholesterol out there and bad carbs seemed to be a issue across the board as well as the need to supplement. Check it out. There is plenty of info out there to get you dialed in


#11

I don't have any worthwhile opinions on cholesterol, but there's a lot of evidence to show that lipitor does extend lifespan.

In fact, a lot of doctors think it's because these statins are really strong anti-inflammatories and so they prevent heart attacks in general.


#12

Here's an interesting article by Anthony Colpo, author of "The Great Cholesterol Con."

It's interesting stuff. Cholesterol-lowering drugs are a multi-billion dollar industry. Just like antacids, which is another topic for another time. Somebody's making alot of money from the cholesterol scare...

http://www.jpands.org/vol10no3/colpo.pdf


#13

That Colpo article is great. I have a PDF file of his best articles that he put out when he shut down his site. It was only about 5 bucks and is a great resource.


#14

I bet. doctors are all too happy to push AD's and cholesterol drugs it seems.

So far I has 2 days of a headache but not today. Otherwise I have no weakness or muscle pain.

announcer A rare but serious side effect is death in some patients.

You ever listen to the long list of deadly sides the commercials show now?

"If your penis explodes, this may be a serious side effect, so please call your doctor".


#15

"...there's a lot of evidence to show that lipitor does extend lifespan."

We only know what we read, and I am no different. But I cannot understand how a longevity study can be made on a drug less than ten years old.

The first hit I got on a Google was this: "In fact, a recent meta-analysis noted side-effects in 20% of patients above the placebo rate (65% vs. 45%), and no change whatever in the all-cause death rate for atorvastatin (Lipitor)." hoptechno.com

If the makers of Lipitor had peer-reviewed, double-blind, placebo tested and FDA approved data of longevity, believe me, they'd wallpaper the media with it. As it is, they can only claim the easily proven drop in cholesterol. What lower cholesterol actually does for a person is a different issue.

High cholesterol is linked to numerous conditions that inarguably shorten life, poor diet and obesity among them. A valid population-based study would have to parse cholesterol from all other factors. I don't think Lipitor has the field data to make a claim like this.

But I'm open to any studies I may find.


#16

I don't recall where I read this, but apparently statin drugs lower your risk of heart attack by increasing your chances of later getting cancer.

I think if you don't smoke, don't drink, exercise, drink lots of water, we won't need very much of the stuff they peddle.


#17

Actually, there are absolutely no clinical studies which show that cholesterol levels are correlated with risk of heart disease. All the studies which are used to promote statin drugs are inconclusive at best, and most are epidemiological. Lifestyle habits (including a high-refined-carb diet) probably have a lot more impact on your heart disease risk than anything, as you suggest.

But the fact is, pharmaceutical companies can't make money off of people who eat well and exercise regularly!


#18

Rockscar

I have been taking it for over 1 yr. Cholesterol dropped from 206 to 148. My bodweight is 230 and has stayed pretty consistent during the past several years.

I also take the 10mg. dosage. My family has a history of heart disease later in life so I am doing this to prevent problems later on as well as lowering cholesterol now.

Lipitor has caused me no sides other then some aches the first month or so. Has not affected my training in the least. I take CoQ10 as a supp and would recomend that. I also cycle T boosters such as Alpha Male and and Tribulus. No issues and T levels have remained high throughout useage of Lipitor. I also take 6 caps of Flameout per day and recommend that also.


#19

Thanks, I'm using all the stuff you mentioned!


#20

So am I understanding correctly that statins can lower T levels? Thanks in advance for clarification.